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ShuswapRedneck
03-21-2009, 10:12 AM
OK, well, I bought this truck. It's a 1992 W250, but it's been converted to a 1 ton with duallies, and 1 ton suspension. I know I can just go to ICBC and insure it as a 1 ton no prob. The question is, how do I get the truck itself changed to a 1 ton? If I get stopped at the scale while towing, the inspector doesn't look at the insurance, they look at the door tag. I've called CVSE and ICBC and nobody can give me a straight answer. Has anybody done this before, or does anybody know how I go about it...ie structural integrity test or inspection or what? I've been trying to figure this out for 3 weeks now with no results.

During my research I have found that:

The 1989-1993 3 quarter ton and 1 ton Dodge, single rear wheel and dual rear wheels all have the Dana/Spicer 70 axles. The frames and bodies are the same the engine and transmission and T-case are the same, so the only difference must be the suspension. Is this correct? Mine has air bags, so that should make the cargo capacity even higher, as I can shift weight from the rear to the front to even it out. What's the major differences between the W250 and W350 besides suspension if anything? Thanks for any help or advice!

CITYSLICKER
03-21-2009, 02:21 PM
i know on the new dodge the difference between the 2500 and 3500 cummins single wheel is stock add a leaf in rear and i think the brakes

m j
03-21-2009, 02:26 PM
google Modifed Vehicle Application from icbc
I have form MV1437 here in front of me
I have seen the forms you want and if I recall the link I will post it for you
http://www.icbc.com/registration/reg_spec_veh_mod_veh.asp

B
03-21-2009, 02:36 PM
i just went in to my local autoplan told them the veh was modified and i needed a 5001 gvw cost 30 bucks and done and this was on my half ton 2wd truck with no mods and 5 bolt wheels


[cheers]

longhorn
03-21-2009, 03:26 PM
i just went in to my local autoplan told them the veh was modified and i needed a 5001 gvw cost 30 bucks and done and this was on my half ton 2wd truck with no mods and 5 bolt wheels


[cheers]

Yup and ICBC can tell you to get lost if you have a accident.
Might as well save your money and drive without insurance.

B
03-21-2009, 03:43 PM
Yup and ICBC can tell you to get lost if you have a accident.
Might as well save your money and drive without insurance.


life is all about choices and chances .. i drove that truck for 6 years with no issues ... but that dosent really matter if you look at the reason he asked :dontknow:


i was just explaining he should have no issues doing what he is asking [cheers]

m j
03-21-2009, 03:53 PM
Yup and ICBC can tell you to get lost if you have a accident.
Might as well save your money and drive without insurance.

only if you drive it, and have an accident, while over the door sticker GVWR.
other then that they cannot tell you to get lost as you have done nothing wrong but overpaid them.

all that doesnt matter as ICBC, like any insurance company, is going to tell you to get lost to avoid paying any claims.

m j
03-21-2009, 03:54 PM
he is asking to get the door sticker number raised if I read the question correctly.

longhorn
03-21-2009, 04:00 PM
life is all about choices and chances .. i drove that truck for 6 years with no issues ... but that dosent really matter if you look at the reason he asked :dontknow:


i was just explaining he should have no issues doing what he is asking [cheers]

Yup I was talking to you not him.
I dont care myself what you raise it to ,but it screws your insurance and thats a true story.
ICBC gave me $10,500 for a Chev I paid $5500 for a few years ago so I dont mind them.

longhorn
03-21-2009, 04:03 PM
i just went in to my local autoplan told them the veh was modified and i needed a 5001 gvw cost 30 bucks and done and this was on my half ton 2wd truck with no mods and 5 bolt wheels


[cheers]

And they gave you a new sticker for your door like hes asking?
I think not..........

Rednecks trying to get it done right , the way I read it?
Bullshitting ICBC on your GVW and getting your VIN changed are 2 diffrent things.

dirka dave
03-21-2009, 04:10 PM
Are you planning on overloading his thing on a regular basis and driving over scales ?

:dontknow:

Toyquad
03-21-2009, 05:48 PM
ICBC Will deny your claim if you change the gvw on your insurance . Read the fine print on the papers you sign when you get insurance. Any falseified information is grounds for your claim to be denied.

But dont believe me, ask my buddy at work who raised his gvw to get by air care. He got rear-ended, other persons fault, icbc gave him sweet fuck all becuase he knowingly falsified information on his insurance. same thing if you lie about your address. Luckily it was a piece of shit truck and he wasnt hurt.

m j
03-21-2009, 08:29 PM
ICBC Will deny your claim if you change the gvw on your insurance . Read the fine print on the papers you sign when you get insurance. Any falseified information is grounds for your claim to be denied.

But dont believe me, ask my buddy at work who raised his gvw to get by air care. He got rear-ended, other persons fault, icbc gave him sweet fuck all becuase he knowingly falsified information on his insurance. same thing if you lie about your address. Luckily it was a piece of shit truck and he wasnt hurt.

I call bullshit on your story.
your licenced GVW has to be high enough to include trailers etc (everyone who trailers has to watch out for this now as there has been some interesting interpretations lately)
paying extra for additional wieght that you do not use is not falsifying anything.
all you did was ensure you are insured for any wieght that you might carry.
it is like a semi paying for 63500kg B train weights but only ever pulling 40000kg tandems, you didnt falsify anything you just paid full price in case you need to pull something heavy
lying on your address puts you in deep shit as you are trying to get out of a rate group, which is why it is better to be truthful about your address and pay extra for Territory Z which is the highest rate group.
lying about the pleasure use vs to from work over 16km also gets you in deep.
anything you do to lower the rate you pay by lying is wrong and voids your insurance policy. paying for extra weight is not lying to lower your rates.

I got rammed by a clown that admitted he was on his way to work from 0 ave to PoCo with 'pleasure only' insurance.

toyon35s
03-21-2009, 10:19 PM
ICBC Will deny your claim if you change the gvw on your insurance . Read the fine print on the papers you sign when you get insurance. Any falseified information is grounds for your claim to be denied.

But dont believe me, ask my buddy at work who raised his gvw to get by air care. He got rear-ended, other persons fault, icbc gave him sweet fuck all becuase he knowingly falsified information on his insurance. same thing if you lie about your address. Luckily it was a piece of shit truck and he wasnt hurt.

my 1982 toyota short box got stolen and icbc covered me 100% and the gvw was 5001,if you look into it any 6 bolt truck is eligale for this gvw due to the fact that you can haul a trailor weighing 10000lbs with a half ton.if you have a 1ton and you plan o hauling on a regular basis you must up the gvw or you will get ticketed,my neigbour had to do this for his car hauler,its a 85 chev crew cab whch is used to haul his race car on a trailor [cheers]

dirka dave
03-21-2009, 10:20 PM
drama drama drama drama


just reading...

Sini
03-21-2009, 10:27 PM
Can I get some of that popcorn? Who knew GVW could be so interesting!

dirka dave
03-21-2009, 10:31 PM
I opted Not to up my GVW, just for the record.

85chevy
03-21-2009, 10:53 PM
My guess is u would have to get the truck inspected to get it changed. My truck was rated for 10,600 GVW I believe because it was an old farm truck but I knocked it down to 5,001 gvw because really don't plan on hauling much but the other difference with the trucks was not on just the springs and axles but the brakes where different for each truck my 3/4 has huge brakes on it. And u can get ur insurance void if u tow with the wrong hitch and get into an accident because each vehicle has a weight at which u have to use a weight distribution hitch instead of a normal hitch. Then u get the people that think if they put a bigger hitch on there truck they can haul a bigger trailer with a normal hitch then what the manufacturer says which will also void your insurance.

Trooper
03-21-2009, 11:22 PM
http://www.pc.gov.bc.ca/cmg/newweb/GVW.htm


Every one of your questions is answered in that..
Some poeple are look like idiots now too

dirka dave
03-21-2009, 11:23 PM
I always look like an idiot.....

Trooper
03-21-2009, 11:25 PM
nice pics

Troy
03-22-2009, 12:14 AM
wow you guys think too much

i just went and changed it and scribbled on some papers with a tube that had ink in it, isnt that the fibc way?

Toyquad
03-22-2009, 09:03 AM
"under section 75 of the insurance(vehicle) act, your claim is invalid if at any time you fail to provide complete and accurate information, violate a term or condition of your policy or commit fraud. for more information see section 75 of the insurance vehicla act"

right from my insurance document.

longhorn
03-22-2009, 09:36 AM
"under section 75 of the insurance(vehicle) act, your claim is invalid if at any time you fail to provide complete and accurate information, violate a term or condition of your policy or commit fraud. for more information see section 75 of the insurance vehicla act"

right from my insurance document.

Your right in what you are saying, that link about GVW has errors in it that ICBC would just laugh at.

longhorn
03-22-2009, 09:39 AM
Double talk......... its says it wont affect your ICBC but then it says you might be found responsible......thats all ICBC needs.

If my vehicle exceeds the GVWR and it becomes involved in an accident, will this affect my insurance coverage?
Your ICBC insurance coverage will not be affected. However, if the overweight problem contributed to the accident you could be found partially or totally responsible for the accident. This could result in an increase to your future premiums. If your vehicle's optional coverage has been purchased from a private insurer, you should check to find out the policies of that insurer in terms of coverage. Police may also ticket you for operating an overweight vehicle.

ShuswapRedneck
03-22-2009, 12:45 PM
Thanks for all the input everybody. I was talking to an autoplan broker the other day, and I was told that if you insure your vehicle for a higher than door posted GVW and are in an accident, you will be covered. HOWEVER if you're grossly overweight, then you will be found at fault no matter what. My concern is that I'm going to be hauling as a commercial vehicle and towing weight in excess of my vehicles GVW (for instance right now with the airbags and PTO winch on the front I'm 200 KG overweight on my front axle, and when I hook up to my flat deck trailer, I only have 150 KG more on my rear axle, so if I sit in the bed...I'm overweight.) If I get stopped by CVES and run over a scale, I'll be in trouble. The inspectors don't look at your insurance papers, they look at the door tag, and failing that, the VIC code to determine your maximum allowable weight. I need to raise this because I was stupid and didn't look at the door tag, just assumed the W250 I bought was a 1 ton because it has duallies. It wasn't until I went to insure it that I found out my mistake, and it's too late to take it back now, as I've put a ton of money and parts into it already...besides the fact that it's a sweet truck.

I can tell you all this from experience, that to try to do this legally is an absolute pain in the arse. I've been going around and around in circles for three weeks with ICBC, CVSE, Chrysler inspection facilities, Google, and now here. All I've accomplished so far is that I've got an appointment booked for Tuesday for a structural integrity test, hoping that with that I can raise my trucks GVW, and then insure it with ICBC at whatever that GVW is...and as for the popcorn...tell me about it.

Picture of what I'm hauling is on the last page of Dodge pics in Dodge Talk.

Thanks again all...

Spedley
03-22-2009, 02:19 PM
Could you change the door therefore changing the door tag?

Sini
03-22-2009, 02:32 PM
That's a really good question actually Spedley LOL I don't think that's the route he wants to go though; thought the whole point of this was to do it "the right way" or something.

Toyquad
03-22-2009, 03:43 PM
most the time...... but not all.... the sticker is in the door jam.... attached to the cab.


the autoplan agent i went to when i upped my gvw to get around aircare made a big deal of it, said i wouldnt be covered if in a accident or truck stolen etc. there is a spot where the agent puts their comments, usualy where they put your phone number..... she wrote a comment saying she explained to me that my insurance would be void if i get into an accident.

ShuswapRedneck
03-22-2009, 04:04 PM
The "door tag" is actually attached to the "b" pillar, so the only way to change it would to be to rip it off completely, or make it illegible...or I could find a cab from a 1 ton and switch it, thereby changing vins, and I'd have to change the VIN on the frame as well to the donor truck. A lot of work, and not the legal route I'm trying to find. I've already removed the emblems from the fenders that say it's a 250, so externally, there's no visible difference between mine and a real W350.

Toy, that sounds like a bunch of crap. When I talked to an autoplan agent, they said it would be covered...basically you're paying a higher rate class when you up your GVW on your insurance papers, thereby giving ICBC more money than you really have to. There's no way they should be able to deny you coverage for doing that. The only way they could deny you is if you lowered your GVW to save money, or put yourself in a lower rate class to "defraud" ICBC and then you may run into problems. I learned that when I put terriory N on my insurance, which covers all of BC, and I was paying the highest rate (Vancouver) and because of my less than 5,000 KG GVW, I would also have to get it aircared...even though I live in the Okanagan. So, I changed my territory :)

m j
03-22-2009, 04:07 PM
specs i find for a w250 are curb wieght in the 4800-5300lbs area and GVWR is 8510lbs
how do you go over front axle rating empty with just a winch up front? the d60 that is the same in both 3/4 and 1 tons is rated somewhere around 4500-5000lbs, which is your entire curb weight
highest GVWR I found for a 1 ton was 10100lbs

ShuswapRedneck
03-22-2009, 06:02 PM
I have no idea how it's over with just a winch...my only speculation is because of the airbags in the rear (which are only at 10 PSI) shifting more weight to the front...also the heavier suspension adds weight to the front as well.

I thought it was a d70 in the 3/4 and 1 ton? I called Rip and Tug and that's what the parts exchange said...well it said it was a Spicer 70, which is the same thing.

10,100 LBS is where I want to be.

m j
03-23-2009, 07:15 AM
d60 front, d70 rear

longhorn
03-23-2009, 01:07 PM
So Ive been thinking about this.................
Raise your gvw doesnt make your truck any tougher...
It MIGHT invalidate your insurance..........
Its wont help in a DOT roadblock.............
It costs money to raise it..................
The only reason I can see doing it would be to screw aircare?
So all you GVW raisers are just looking to screw the goverment, theres no other reason?

Toyquad
03-23-2009, 01:53 PM
So Ive been thinking about this.................
Raise your gvw doesnt make your truck any tougher...
It MIGHT invalidate your insurance..........
Its wont help in a DOT roadblock.............
It costs money to raise it..................
The only reason I can see doing it would be to screw aircare?
So all you GVW raisers are just looking to screw the goverment, theres no other reason?


pretty much....... fuck them anyway you can..... thats what they do to us

raising the gvw cost me $45 more a year..... air care is 24 iirc

but then no hassle of having to go to aircare, no hassle cause u wont fail aircare, wont have to buy a permit to go to aircare etc.

m j
03-23-2009, 03:37 PM
So Ive been thinking about this.................
Raise your gvw doesnt make your truck any tougher...
It MIGHT invalidate your insurance..........
Its wont help in a DOT roadblock.............
It costs money to raise it..................
The only reason I can see doing it would be to screw aircare?
So all you GVW raisers are just looking to screw the goverment, theres no other reason?

doesnt make truck tuffer,
doesnt invalidate insurance,
has no effect at a DOT roadblock, but nothing does
increases yearly rate by a bit
saves a huge hassle at airscare

for the OP it will make him be legal to haul loads he wants

wannabe
03-23-2009, 04:51 PM
Well.......does upping the GVW to 5001 or whatever invalidate your insurance or not??????????????? Does anyone actually know the answer?????????
:confused0006: :confused0006: :confused0006: :confused0006: :confused0006: :confused0006: :confused0006: :confused0006:

ShuswapRedneck
03-23-2009, 05:01 PM
I was told by my autoplan broker that it does NOT invalidate your insurance. How could it? You're paying a HIGHER rate than you would have to if you had a lower GVW.

HILLBILLY
03-23-2009, 06:00 PM
i just went in to my local autoplan told them the veh was modified and i needed a 5001 gvw cost 30 bucks and done and this was on my half ton 2wd truck with no mods and 5 bolt wheels


[cheers]
I agree the tag on your door don't mean anything it's whats on the registation

longhorn
03-23-2009, 06:38 PM
I agree the tag on your door don't mean anything it's whats on the registation

Well you would be wrong if thats what you agreed to...............

Toyquad
03-23-2009, 07:20 PM
I was told by my autoplan broker that it does NOT invalidate your insurance. How could it? You're paying a HIGHER rate than you would have to if you had a lower GVW.


if you get an adjuster having a bad day they can deny your claim because you gave them false information. dont believe me, call icbc yourself.

ShuswapRedneck
03-25-2009, 06:54 PM
It's done, all nice and legal like. I had a structural integrity test done at a frame shop, and it passed with flying colours, and that now has legally raised the GVW above and beyond what the door tag says. I have to keep the inspection form in the vehicle in case I get stopped by CVSE to show them the report. Thanks for the input!

longhorn
03-25-2009, 07:25 PM
It's done, all nice and legal like. I had a structural integrity test done at a frame shop, and it passed with flying colours, and that now has legally raised the GVW above and beyond what the door tag says. I have to keep the inspection form in the vehicle in case I get stopped by CVSE to show them the report. Thanks for the input!

Where did you find a shop and was it expensive?
Glad you got it done , looks like a good truck you have.

Toyquad
03-25-2009, 08:32 PM
glad ya got it done

ShuswapRedneck
03-26-2009, 07:58 AM
thanks. I had it done at Salmon Arm Frame and Body Shop. It was only $100. Luckily the owner of the shop knew my truck and the previous owner very well. He didn't even make me leave it there for an inspection, he just called the previous owner and asked him what was done to it, then filled out the inspection form. He knows that the last owner babied the truck and absolutely nothing that was ever done to it was mickey moused or half assed. Basically, though, a structural entegrity test involves measuring the frame and suspension to make sure of it's load handling capabilities. It's a pretty simple test, and I'm sure glad it's done!

bk01
03-26-2009, 02:02 PM
Just a side now for all you guys thinking of upin the GVW on your Vehicle to 5001 KG means a few other things aswell..

1. Any vehicle with a GVW over 5000 KG or 11000 LBS requires a NSC # (or national safety code #) in addition to that there are annual inspections with that, and there have to be a Pretrip inspection report in the vehicle for each day that its driven. That can result in VT's from police/CVSE and possible fines from CVSE up to $5000 i think for NSC infractions.

2. A BC Class 5 Drivers license is ONLY Valid up to 4600 KG after that you need to get a Class 3 License or have a Code 50 or 21 endorsement on your Class 5 otherwise you're driving contrary to class.

So just because you're vehicle is able to have a higher GVW that doesnt mean you're valid to drive it.. and yes if you get into a crash while over 4600KG ICBC can still wash their hands cuz youre not qualified to drive.

So Shuswap, if you're going to be pulling 10,100LBS might just be a good idea to have a Class 3

and gettin up to your GVW is not hard after a few mods.

Insurance GVW is based on a bone stock vehicle not incl fuel or driver

StinkFinger
03-26-2009, 04:10 PM
it kinda wishy washy i wrote off my toy it had 5001gvw when i talked to the ajuster he said it every thing was covered but if i was cring or towing a load with out a hevy trailor endosment or class 3 i would of have been sol

Toyquad
03-26-2009, 05:53 PM
Just a side now for all you guys thinking of upin the GVW on your Vehicle to 5001 KG means a few other things aswell..

1. Any vehicle with a GVW over 5000 KG or 11000 LBS requires a NSC # (or national safety code #) in addition to that there are annual inspections with that, and there have to be a Pretrip inspection report in the vehicle for each day that its driven. That can result in VT's from police/CVSE and possible fines from CVSE up to $5000 i think for NSC infractions.




Isnt it vehicles 5500kg and higher?? 5001 you do not need annual inspections, nor do you need to do a pretrip. 5500 also you need to go over scales.

i got my class 1 so either way i should be ok

ShuswapRedneck
03-26-2009, 07:26 PM
5001 and over you need an NSC number (I got one)
5,500 and over you must report to scales
8,xxxx something you need to do a pre-trip
if your trailer is over 10,000 lb and class 6, you need a class 3 or heavy trailer endorsement (restriction 20). I have that.
if the truck is over 14,500 it requires a semi annual inspection and you have to complete a log book
the trailer annual

this is only for commercial vehicles. If you have a truck and are towing your travel trailer, you are exempt from all of the above...if you are towing a heavy flat deck, it falls under a class 6 and requres inspections, trips over the scales, and your GVW is the total combined weight of the loaded truck AND loaded trailer.

I've learned a lot during my quest!

OldEnuff
03-27-2009, 12:51 AM
soooo.... in other words if you have a vehicle that has been raised to 5001 and you are NOT carrying and towing anything extra it is all good and the only thing different is you pay a premium for the upgraded regi and are not required to have an aircare inspection.


I have had two vehicles like this for years (a bronco and a pickup) and never a problem as they are pleasure use vehicles not commercial and will never tow or carry anything except my fat ass................. and beer :D

bk01
03-27-2009, 10:20 PM
Bronco, you still need an NSC number for over 5001kg and Toyquad, i cant remember when all the other stuff starts but at 5001kg i know the all the rules start to change... i had some probs with this at work before too...

OldEnuff
03-28-2009, 03:05 AM
Bronco, you still need an NSC number for over 5001kg and Toyquad, i cant remember when all the other stuff starts but at 5001kg i know the all the rules start to change... i had some probs with this at work before too...

5001 and over you need an NSC number (I got one)
5,500 and over you must report to scales
8,xxxx something you need to do a pre-trip
if your trailer is over 10,000 lb and class 6, you need a class 3 or heavy trailer endorsement (restriction 20). I have that.
if the truck is over 14,500 it requires a semi annual inspection and you have to complete a log book
the trailer annual

this is only for commercial vehicles. If you have a truck and are towing your travel trailer, you are exempt from all of the above...if you are towing a heavy flat deck, it falls under a class 6 and requres inspections, trips over the scales, and your GVW is the total combined weight of the loaded truck AND loaded trailer.

I've learned a lot during my quest!



hmmm........ seemingly contradicting information :confused0006:


and


on my regi for my pickup which has been raised to 5001 where it says

NSC no. and name .... it clearly says NOT*REQD

go figure eh!

m j
03-28-2009, 05:02 AM
NSC is for commercial carriers not private vehicles. (yeah, I have an NSC#)

many motor homes are way over 5001 and do not require NSC.

fear mongering is strong here, I almost have to look up to see what site I am on

ShuswapRedneck
03-28-2009, 08:29 AM
lol...ya, it sounds contradictory. It is quite simple though. An RV trailer is a class 4, therefore you only add the tongue weight to your truck's curb weight to figure out your GVW. If you're towing a flat deck which has a GVW over 450 KG, it's a class 6, then you add the weight of your loaded truck and loaded trailer to come up with your combined GVW. As long as you don't exceed any of your axle ratings, or the towing capacity of your rig, and your insurance is at the proper weight, you're OK. A flat deck or cargo trailer with a GVW of 450 KG or less is a class 4, and falls under the same rules as an RV trailer.

NOW...here is the fun part. If you're a commercial vehicle, you need an NSC number if you're hauling a class 6 and your combined weight is over 5,000 KG. There are other rules and regulations regarding an NSC number...i.e. signs on your vehicle with the company name visible at a certain size etc...
As your weight increases, so do the rules...scales, pre-trip,semi-annual/annual inspections, log books etc.

Regardless of whether you are commercial OR private, to haul a class 6 trailer OVER 10,000 lb, you need to have a class 3 (or class 1) or heavy trailer endorsement (restriction 20). Class 4 (RV trailers) are exempt from all of these regs.

Of course...everything changes when you add air brakes to the mix too! Hope that clears some stuff up.

Sini
03-28-2009, 11:02 AM
Wow, you are now like the GVW God !!! lol

85chevy
03-29-2009, 09:36 AM
Oh how I love the rules people come up with[36]