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tchevy
01-20-2009, 10:04 PM
Has anyone experienced axle wrap from doing a shackle flip. I know they say it reduces it when you are using blocks, but what about a 2 inch lift spring and the ORD shackle flip bracket?

Thanks in advance[cheers]

m j
01-20-2009, 11:21 PM
the spring rate will be reduced so perhaps it might wrap a bit more
leaf springs will wrap, losing a block reduces the leverage, but it is still a flexible link to the frame

stevem
01-21-2009, 12:57 AM
Has anyone experienced axle wrap from doing a shackle flip. I know they say it reduces it when you are using blocks, but what about a 2 inch lift spring and the ORD shackle flip bracket?

Thanks in advance[cheers]

blocks make the axle wrap worse.
i dont see why a shackle flip would reduce axle wrap,its might actually get worse because you will probably be puting on larger tires.

Stetson
01-21-2009, 09:44 AM
Not sure where the first two are getting your information from, simple physics, the larger the blocks, the further away from the point of torque, the more axle wrap. doing a shackle flip on a chev is like putting in a 4" lift. So this allows you to lift you truck without having to use a block thus not increasing axle wrap......yet still keeping your stock ride which by not using a lift leaf you maintain better articulation.

tchevy
01-21-2009, 11:18 AM
yes, i was going to remove my rock hard 4 inch lift, a huge leaf pack, and put in a 2 inch leaf with the 2.5 ORD shackle bracket

dirka dave
01-21-2009, 02:17 PM
Not sure where the first two are getting your information from, simple physics, the larger the blocks, the further away from the point of torque, the more axle wrap. doing a shackle flip on a chev is like putting in a 4" lift. So this allows you to lift you truck without having to use a block thus not increasing axle wrap......yet still keeping your stock ride which by not using a lift leaf you maintain better articulation.



Yep....

ENERGY
01-21-2009, 02:24 PM
the spring rate will be reduced so perhaps it might wrap a bit more
leaf springs will wrap, losing a block reduces the leverage, but it is still a flexible link to the frame


The only way to reduce spring rate is with altering the spring itself. You are just changing the loading and resistance characteristics with changing the shackle position.

crimsen
01-21-2009, 03:49 PM
you can gain more axle wrap from a shackle reversal as noted by mj, stevem, and evergy. mj has been corrected by evergy, and stevem is right if infact larger tires are placed on.


changes in the following will have these resulting effects.

shackle flip = softer ride, more articulation, more axle wrap
removing blocks = less axle wrap
changing spring packs = more or less wrap with a softer/stiffer ride respectivly.
larger tires = more wrap
ladder bar or similar = no wrap, possibly less articulation, depending on design

m j
01-21-2009, 06:51 PM
if the ride gets softer, then spring rate has been effected.
there is no way around that.

85_GMC_4x4
01-21-2009, 07:13 PM
I fail to see how a shackle flip (by itself, no larger tires) would have any effect on axle wrap. Won't get better or worse in my book.

Your post is kinda misleading Crimsen... a shackle flip doesn't make a softer ride (springs and shocks determine how soft/hard the suspension is). It will be softer than doing something like adding a leaf tho..

ENERGY
01-21-2009, 07:33 PM
if the ride gets softer, then spring rate has been effected.
there is no way around that.

The spring rate itself has NOT been effected you are allowing the spring to move easier through its range of motion. spring rate is measured with the spring out of the truck so explain what the shackle has to do with this. Now if you had stated that shackles whether it be angles or in a compression or tension position will change EFFECTIVE installed spring rate you would be 100% correct but then so will things like spring perch length and static twist.

tchevy
01-21-2009, 07:36 PM
I fail to see how a shackle flip (by itself, no larger tires) would have any effect on axle wrap. Won't get better or worse in my book.

Your post is kinda misleading Crimsen... a shackle flip doesn't make a softer ride (springs and shocks determine how soft/hard the suspension is). It will be softer than doing something like adding a leaf tho..

The flip should make it ride softer due to it being a tension design right now and after the flip it will be the compression style

In The Zone
01-21-2009, 08:59 PM
really comes down to the load on the spring never changed


unless u add to the gvw then u will 100% affect spring rate and ride...

the fulcrum of the spring will change pinion angle ect..
all having a bearing on ride quality and articulation ....
shackle flips tend to move the centre forward and lift blocks produce more leverage

m j
01-21-2009, 09:20 PM
The spring rate itself has NOT been effected you are allowing the spring to move easier through its range of motion. spring rate is measured with the spring out of the truck so explain what the shackle has to do with this. Now if you had stated that shackles whether it be angles or in a compression or tension position will change EFFECTIVE installed spring rate you would be 100% correct but then so will things like spring perch length and static twist.


changing the restraint, changes the spring rate. I am pretty sure no one really gives a rats ass what the rate is 'on the shelf' when they are working on their truck.
so given the question was about changing the restraint and what the effects could be, I think it is pretty safe to assume the springs will be installed before the question of axle wrap will become relevent.
the angle you should be working is whether the spring rate change found by reducing the restraint makes the torque more or less likely to wrap the spring, as that was the question asked and you didnt even bother to submit an opinion.

The flip should make it ride softer due to it being a tension design right now and after the flip it will be the compression style

that assumes the shackle is placed at a favourable angle.
typical front lift kits for chevys fail at compression shackle angle

ENERGY
01-21-2009, 11:13 PM
We could argue this all day but in the end it only changes effective spring rate. It will make the spring react more which will allow more axle wrap but I have never seen it be to an extent that is a problem.

Justin_B
01-21-2009, 11:27 PM
coils and a 4 link:party0010:

tchevy
01-22-2009, 07:00 PM
coils and a 4 link:party0010:
maybe in a few more years [cheers]

Justin_B
01-22-2009, 09:26 PM
thats the spirit