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View Full Version : Which is stronger???


C.W.
12-06-2008, 01:04 PM
Dana 50 ttb or solid dana 44?

m j
12-06-2008, 01:48 PM
wierd question.
the d50 should be stronger
bigger wheel bearings

C.W.
12-06-2008, 01:56 PM
That was kinda my thinking too, but people complain so much about ttb's and how weak they are.

radman
12-06-2008, 02:32 PM
I personaly have had no problems with ford's ttb, dont replace parts with cheap shit, and life should be good.

C.W.
12-06-2008, 03:15 PM
I personaly have had no problems with ford's ttb, dont replace parts with cheap shit, and life should be good.
I haven't until recently. But i have a dana 44 solid axle, was just wondering if it was worth the swap.

tchevy
12-06-2008, 04:11 PM
i would say if you are planning on doing a swap it isnt worthwhile for a 44. if you are going to do anything go 60[cheers]

mus-Tard
12-06-2008, 05:53 PM
l couldn't tell you what is stronger but l had the dana 44 heavy duty TTB in my truck with leaf spring and swaped it out for a dana 60 and it realy wasn't much work at all. the only problems l had was l needed new u bolts made $10 bucks each, shorten my drive shaft by about 1 inch and grind down the pin that runs through the leaf pack a little. every thing else was straight forward un-bolt, re-bolt. if your doing a lift you will want a solid front axle any way. l say if you have the SFA sitting around. do it and as long as you dont have locked diffs or are running tires bigger than 35 inch you shouldn't have a problem.















just giver.

C.W.
12-06-2008, 06:45 PM
Ok so unless im swapping in a 60 its not worth the swap is the general opinion it seems.
I do have a 44 sitting here that was gonna go in my other ford in place of the ttb 44 but i picked up an f-250 today which is an easier swap being leafs already.
Maybe i'll keep the 44 for my f-150 then and hunt for a 60.
Is a solid 44 any stronger than a ttb44? Or is that not a worth while swap either?

FU Toolbag
12-06-2008, 06:52 PM
solid d44 is a lot better than the ttb one and worth the work. Putting a d44 in place of the d50ttb is a waist of effort. Put the d44 into your halfton and leave the ttb50 as is till you find a d60.



PPPSSSTT, I have one left now.

m j
12-06-2008, 07:16 PM
you asked about strength, not whether a solid was better then a ttb
ttb issues are the pisspoor factory steering geometry, and the camber change with suspension movement
camber changes with vehicle weight, so align the thing with the full wieght on it
the steering tierods should be the same length/angle as the beams
the superrunner steering is on the right path but not well executed

C.W.
12-06-2008, 08:12 PM
Ya i was asking about the strength and durability of it. I agree with the alignment problems, i fight that everytime i mess with my f-150 or anytime it bounces off a rock or stump.
I would like two 60's, one for each but not in the budget at the moment.
So far the 250 is stock height with the exception of a body lift but i wanna change that as long as i keep it.

Explorer guy418
12-06-2008, 09:05 PM
i had a d35ttb and ran 37s broke the odd hub but lifetime warranty... and i weeled it pretty good. but the alignment does get fucked alot.. but ttb is by far the best for ''ifs'' suspension theres a guy named tom hes not really on anymore he made a solid axle ttb

C.W.
12-06-2008, 09:09 PM
Solid axle ttb?
You mean a solid axle that bolts directly into a ttb truck?

Explorer guy418
12-06-2008, 09:20 PM
no man it was a solid axle ttb.... http://www.trailmonster.com/MonsterRides/images/MR_60_Image_1.jpeg

C.W.
12-06-2008, 09:24 PM
Weird.
Wouldn't a solid axle have been less work?

Explorer guy418
12-06-2008, 09:27 PM
original is the key my friend.... and that truck was built a while ago wen d44 were expensive im guessing?

C.W.
12-06-2008, 09:29 PM
That makes sense. How well did it work?

Explorer guy418
12-06-2008, 09:31 PM
well as u can see she flexes pretty goood.... she worked good .

Ginger Snaps
12-07-2008, 01:05 AM
trucks still around i think he lives up north now

C.W.
12-07-2008, 01:07 AM
cool. Still the same diff set up?

OldEnuff
12-07-2008, 01:53 AM
yeah, he lives in the Charlottes now

it is also a mid engine 460 as well

with dual trannys and t-cases

crawl ratio is just stupid ... cant remember exactly but well over 1000:1

barracuda
12-07-2008, 01:57 AM
solid d44 is a lot better than the ttb one and worth the work. Putting a d44 in place of the d50ttb is a waist of effort. Put the d44 into your halfton and leave the ttb50 as is till you find a d60.



PPPSSSTT, I have one left now.

if you get a late model HP 3/4 ton d44 (77.5-79) it will have half inch thick tube, the axle shafts on the 44 and the 50 are both 1.31 and the universals are 297 and 5-86 for the 50 which is stronger then the 44. The dana 50 has a 9 inch HP ring gear whilst the 44 is 8.5. the pinion shaft is 1.377 for the 50 and 1.375 for the 44. it really isnt any real world use stronger then a 44 and i have seen snapped axles on both with equivalent abuse.

If you get moly axles for the 44 and good Ujoints (moly axles and ujoints bring it closer to the d60 range) . the 44 also give you more clearance then a 50 or the d 60 . a dana 44 with 35 inch tires has roughly the same clearance as a dana 60 with37-38 inch tires.

there is nothing wrong with a Live axle dana44 replaceing a dana 50TTB and it is most assureadly a benefit but in the long run unless you specificlly want a 44 the dana 60 from the late 80s is a simpler and stronger stock swap.




the TTB is a pis poor platfom especially when you need flex or for the diff to ride over an obstical . the pivot points for the ttb stop you like an anchor as you try to push a large flat chunk of metal with a large surface area that acts as a plow and does not move independently of the weight of the truck.

it has more parts to wear out and is generally a pain in the ass .

OldEnuff
12-07-2008, 02:08 AM
[stupid]

OldEnuff
12-07-2008, 02:12 AM
I put a solid 44 from a 79 bronco into my '85 bronco

it is locked front and rear

I run 36" tsl's and the only time I have broken anything is axle u-joints when using the pedal too hard with the wheels cranked

but I am not abusive with it... no mud bogging... just trails and crawling in the bush

dirka dave
12-07-2008, 03:18 AM
I remember that thing and that day, I belive that was at sportrucks...


http://www.trailmonster.com/MonsterRides/images/MR_60_Image_1.jpeg

C.W.
12-07-2008, 12:37 PM
Thanks for the info Barracuda, the #'s help with where the weaker points might be. I do agree with the ttb being a plow, i seem to hang it up on alot and its an instant stop when it happens. I am fighting with stuff wearing and breaking on my 150 right now only problem is i cant find what it is, can sure feel it when turning though.
I want to lift the F-250 as well and was thinking that srings and shocks would be easier and cheaper than a ttb lift and as you said less parts to wear or break.
So i guess there is good and bad with both sides. :confused0006:

BajaDale
12-07-2008, 06:06 PM
You guys and your solid axles.... I know it takes a little more effort (and brains) to make a TTB front end to work but i'm not sure a solid axle is the answer to everything! As far as people saying the TTB is weak? Our truck has finished 2 Baja 1000's with a Dana44 TTB with 35" tires, no issues at all. I've played around with TTB front ends for years and build them for customers all over Canada. I know what your saying by the pivot points catching on shit, so don't lower your pivot brackets down? Get your lift with a custom set of beams, not brackets.. I've got huge ground clearence in my prerunner and only ever catch the rear diff on stuff. People say the steering is an issue? I find that hard to believe when my truck cycles 17-18" of wheel travel with the stock steering and only 1/2" of bump steer.. I love how people bash stuff, especialy when they don't understand it. Don't worry your TTB will be plenty strong as long as you treat it right! www.baja-north.com

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg162/bajanorthprotruck/P9060020.jpg

barracuda
12-07-2008, 08:08 PM
we are talkiing mainly about slow speed fourwheeling not desert raceing. yes a ttb can be made to work withing certain parameters but the disproportionate amount of work and fabrication gives it what most would consider diminishing return for effort.

pretty simple to see the issues with each design and even with custom beams you will still have the issues outlined (custom beams are not new)

dont you think most serious crawlers or mudders would have turfed thier live axles in favour of a ttb if the design was an improvment or an advantage?

perhaps you can explin why it is so much better, in fact i wont mind if you use big words in your explanation.

But hey what do i know[36] perhaps i dont have the brains to figure something as complex as a TTB[15]

C.W.
12-07-2008, 08:46 PM
we are talkiing mainly about slow speed fourwheeling not desert raceing. yes a ttb can be made to work withing certain parameters but the disproportionate amount of work and fabrication gives it what most would consider diminishing return for effort.

pretty simple to see the issues with each design and even with custom beams you will still have the issues outlined (custom beams are not new)

dont you think most serious crawlers or mudders would have turfed thier live axles in favour of a ttb if the design was an improvment or an advantage?

perhaps you can explin why it is so much better, in fact i wont mind if you use big words in your explanation.

But hey what do i know[36] perhaps i dont have the brains to figure something as complex as a TTB[15]
Ouch! [15]

nbrowser
12-07-2008, 09:35 PM
Not to hijack but I'm thinkin of buyin a '91 F150 2WD and clipping the front end to get rid of the twin I setup....I just don't like how the twin I drives.....I can only imagine what a full on TTB is like on the trails.....

C.W.
12-07-2008, 10:04 PM
I always thought fords were some of the smoothest riding trucks on road.

nbrowser
12-07-2008, 10:14 PM
Not when the plan is to maybe lay frame :)

dirka dave
12-07-2008, 10:54 PM
I always thought fords were some of the smoothest riding trucks on road.

Maybe if you have an air-ride seat..

C.W.
12-07-2008, 11:01 PM
Maybe if you have an air-ride seat..
Well the ones i've had have been smooth.

BajaDale
12-07-2008, 11:26 PM
we are talkiing mainly about slow speed fourwheeling not desert raceing. yes a ttb can be made to work withing certain parameters but the disproportionate amount of work and fabrication gives it what most would consider diminishing return for effort.

pretty simple to see the issues with each design and even with custom beams you will still have the issues outlined (custom beams are not new)

dont you think most serious crawlers or mudders would have turfed thier live axles in favour of a ttb if the design was an improvment or an advantage?

perhaps you can explin why it is so much better, in fact i wont mind if you use big words in your explanation.

But hey what do i know[36] perhaps i dont have the brains to figure something as complex as a TTB[15]

Perhaps you don't? How long did it take you and the dictionary to write your last post? :confused0006: :confused0006: Did I say custom beams are new?:dontknow: But you have to put disproportionate (as you smart people put it) amounts of work and fabrication to make a solid axle work good too.. You can't just slap one in and expect great results. Most serious crawlers and mudders have done alot of work to make them perform like they do. Don't be fooled just because you see a solid axle under it...

P.S. big words: something ignorant people say to compliment another on their outstanding usage of SAT-esque words, while simultaneously degrading themselves for their lack of a modest vocabulary.

[cheers]

FU Toolbag
12-07-2008, 11:32 PM
The most used trucks for loggers are the one ton fords. You go tell a loger they ride on a cusion, they'll correct you. Chev builds the cumfee truck, just sucks off road. And just nobody like dodges, cause they're dodges. The ttb was awsome in it's day. it's day ended in the 60's. But chev couldn't figure out an ifs till 88, unlike ford perverting the trusted d44 in the early 80's. Like I said before, putting that d44 is a waist of time and effort. I'ld keep the F250 stock to get your F150 home.

C.W.
12-07-2008, 11:32 PM
[16] [16] [16]

Well it started out good........................

FU Toolbag
12-07-2008, 11:34 PM
they never end well

C.W.
12-07-2008, 11:37 PM
The most used trucks for loggers are the one ton fords. You go tell a loger they ride on a cusion, they'll correct you. Chev builds the cumfee truck, just sucks off road. And just nobody like dodges, cause they're dodges. The ttb was awsome in it's day. it's day ended in the 60's. But chev couldn't figure out an ifs till 88, unlike ford perverting the trusted d44 in the early 80's. Like I said before, putting that d44 is a waist of time and effort. I'ld keep the F250 stock to get your F150 home.
The smooth ride i was talking about the 2wd that was mentioned.
So far my F150 seems to make it home on its own power, but i would like to swap that one, the f250 i was just looking for opinions from previous or current experiences, mainly because i have the leaf spring dana 44. Im not even sure what im doing with the 250 yet, just looking for ideas.

dirka dave
12-08-2008, 12:24 AM
[16] [16] [16] [16] [16]


Fords ride like rocks...

barracuda
12-08-2008, 12:49 AM
Perhaps you don't? How long did it take you and the dictionary to write your last post? :confused0006: :confused0006: Did I say custom beams are new?:dontknow: But you have to put disproportionate (as you smart people put it) amounts of work and fabrication to make a solid axle work good too.. You can't just slap one in and expect great results. Most serious crawlers and mudders have done alot of work to make them perform like they do. Don't be fooled just because you see a solid axle under it...

P.S. big words: something ignorant people say to compliment another on their outstanding usage of SAT-esque words, while simultaneously degrading themselves for their lack of a modest vocabulary.

[cheers]

I think you are a tad confused .
The effort and time to make a live axle work well is far less of a curve then a ttb suspension. I did not say that a ttb cant work or wont work it is simply that it takes more work to get satisfactory performance from one then it does a live axle. Even if one was to use something as archaic as a leaf spring one can still get good results with minimal effort from a live axle whilst the same cannot be said for ttb systems .


As for vocabulary it was simply stated that the use of big words could or can be used by you in the explanation of your position in this matter and no one here would be offended or feel insecure LOL ! (guess i was wrong[15] )

Admitidly you did say that it takes more effort and brains to make a TTB work so i merly expanded on what you had previously said .



I have to admit that i am curious as to why you would think that good use of all the words available to a person would be degrading to them?

Seems a bit of an odd statement dont you think?:confused0006:






PS: i dont need a dictionary as all the words i have used are normally used by me in day to day conversation LOL !

dirka dave
12-08-2008, 12:54 AM
I wish I could type better, then I could use big words fancy words too.


:D

barracuda
12-08-2008, 01:00 AM
I speak the way i type, it is normal for me , a little odd perhaps but good grammer was a normal requirment growing up in our house .
Poor english or grammer was frowned upon and not tolerated.

C.W.
12-08-2008, 01:06 AM
odd is the size of that dogs tongue in your avatar. :eek:

barracuda
12-08-2008, 01:13 AM
he's a real hit with the ladies [49] [49] [49]

BajaDale
12-08-2008, 07:01 PM
I'm not confused at all, I'm just sure a moderate built TTB would wheel just fine for probably 85% of the wheelers out there. Sure the SAS will RTI better but is it that necessary for everyday wheeling? I was talking to Shannon Campbell a couple of months ago at a desert race, he was saying they're working on IFS front suspension for the rock racers because there are too many limitations to a solid axle... hmm, weird? I'm not against solid axles I just think they're over rated. Just my .02 cents..

[cheers] [cheers]

m j
12-09-2008, 06:35 AM
only 1/2" bumpsteer

nice one

the cool part is the 2 tires change at different rates due to the long draglink on one side and the shorty on the other
better question is why wouldnt you fix the design flaw?
a proper centerlink with equal length tierods doesnt look too hard to do

35"s are lil tiny toyota tires, might work in the desert but in a large part of BC MaMa nature makes obsticals bigger
you dont see skidders on 35" tires for a reason

Reeseman
12-09-2008, 09:47 AM
I haven't had any problems with the bronco

radman
12-09-2008, 11:59 AM
lol, this is as bad as the ford, chev, dodge arguement. it all comes down to personal prefrince, and what you are willing to put up with, and what you are going to use the truck for

BajaDale
12-09-2008, 01:33 PM
lol, this is as bad as the ford, chev, dodge arguement. it all comes down to personal prefrince, and what you are willing to put up with, and what you are going to use the truck for

I agree, Different strokes for different folks. And MJ your soooo wrong on the steering thing!! If you want the steering to work 100% you have to use a "swing set" steering not a "center link"[16] You need to stop reading all those SuperLift catalogues they're not always right:p :p .....

m j
12-09-2008, 06:03 PM
I mistook you for someone that had some knowledge, I wont make that mistake again.

swingset is just a dezert person venacular for a type of centerlink steering system.
seems the only difference is the idlers are vertical rather then the typical horizontal.
so really that is pretty much what I said needed to be done to correct the steering.

Superlift had a full page on their catalogues stating how Jesus was great, as I am not a Jesus freak and dont think pushing religon has any place in 4x4ing I do not use or endorse any Superlift crap.
but....they did make a crappy steering correction kit for TTB that didnt get anywhere near getting the tierods to match the beam lengths

BajaDale
12-09-2008, 06:26 PM
I mistook you for someone that had some knowledge, I wont make that mistake again.

swingset is just a dezert person venacular for a type of centerlink steering system.
seems the only difference is the idlers are vertical rather then the typical horizontal.
so really that is pretty much what I said needed to be done to correct the steering.

Superlift had a full page on their catalogues stating how Jesus was great, as I am not a Jesus freak and dont think pushing religon has any place in 4x4ing I do not use or endorse any Superlift crap.
but....they did make a crappy steering correction kit for TTB that didnt get anywhere near getting the tierods to match the beam lengths

My mistake I thought you were talking the Superlift Steering, I've been doing this for 20 years and never heard it called a "center link"?? Other than the Superlift Center Link kit[cheers]

Steev
12-09-2008, 07:58 PM
I speak the way i type, it is normal for me , a little odd perhaps but good grammer was a normal requirment growing up in our house .
Poor english or grammer was frowned upon and not tolerated.

????

Run-on sentences and improper spelling count as good grammar now?

I am not trying to be a dick, but you can't preach about grammar if you can't spell it.

Steev
12-09-2008, 08:01 PM
I suppose I should make a constructive post too.


I love my F250, but it does ride rough. I would wait until you find a dana 60 to swap in place of the TTB. The 44 you have would go great in the F150 as others have said already. You will likely break the 44 in the 250 and you'll be back to looking for an axle again.

C.W.
12-09-2008, 08:15 PM
Ok so if people think i'll just break it in the f250, is the 44 really that much better in the F150?
Wont it break just as easy in that?

Steev
12-09-2008, 08:50 PM
The 250 is heavier and likely has more power. If you are putting on larger tires it likely wouldn't stand up to any abuse.

I have seen cherokees on 37 inch tires on a dana 35, so if you are easy on it then it should be okay. Still not ideal for the application in my opinion.

C.W.
12-09-2008, 08:54 PM
Well the 250 is a regular cab and the 150 is ext cab, both small block trucks so im not sure about the weight difference but wouldn't putting larger tires on the 150 with the 44 have the same effect as far as breaking stuff?

barracuda
12-09-2008, 09:59 PM
????

Run-on sentences and improper spelling count as good grammar now?

I am not trying to be a dick, but you can't preach about grammar if you can't spell it.

tis true i do tend to post run on sentences , poor punctuation, spelling, hit the wrong key when i post etc But what has that got to do with what i had said :party0010:

What i was getting at was my manner in which i post is very much the same way in which i speak or have a conversation with someone.

If i had used a dictionary I am pretty sure i would have spelled the word grammar correctly LOL!! (kinda proves a dictionary wasnt used does it not?)


BTW: Grammar is pretty broad and expansive in its application

pistnbroke
12-09-2008, 11:44 PM
I run a solid ttb50 in my bronco. been running it for years with 39.5 swampers its been holdin up so far.

C.W.
12-09-2008, 11:56 PM
What do you do to make a ttb solid?

radman
12-10-2008, 11:43 AM
some f-250s come with a d44 ttb. biger brakes and bearings and 8 wheel studs.

C.W.
12-10-2008, 12:33 PM
some f-250s come with a d44 ttb. biger brakes and bearings and 8 wheel studs.
How do i tell the difference if thats the case?

barracuda
12-10-2008, 02:53 PM
the d44 will have the smaller hubs and normally the semifloat rear end

C.W.
12-10-2008, 07:10 PM
Ok, this one definately has the bigger hubs in it and i beleive the full floater rear.

m j
12-10-2008, 07:14 PM
http://autorepair.about.com/library/glossary/bldef-100a.htm


CENTER LINK

Definition: The center bar or link in a parallelogram steering system that connects the pitman arm and idler arm. Also called a "relay rod."