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tenpack
03-03-2007, 09:30 PM
Got a new motor its a 350 4-bolt main with moly rings, 10.5:1, RV cam, and other mild parts. The problem is when i go to break in the motor, i fill the rad full of coolant and wait 10 minutes for the weep holes to do their job. When i go to fire up the truck, the vaporiser freezes pretty quickly.

To prevent this, should i remove t-stat and fill with coolant them reassable and try so the vaporiser will have sufficient coolant to conver the liquid to vapor?

Also, there are two adjustment screws in the base of the mixer, which one his which?


Any ideas are appreciated.Thanks

apefrill
03-03-2007, 09:36 PM
My husband's truck does the same thing, it happens when the coolant level is too low or when there is an air bubble in the system somewhere. I've had times when it can run for half an hour and still keep freezing up. Try letting it cool down then double check the coolant level, then start it again. It's annoying, I know believe me, been late for work on more than one occasion because of that problem.

tenpack
03-03-2007, 09:51 PM
The coolant is low because i'm filling it to break in the motor, was told coolant shouldnt be left in a new motor because the headgaskets will soften and let go. My problem now is how to get this air bubble at the vaporiser gone...

duff
03-03-2007, 10:23 PM
I dont know who told you about your head gaskets, but its gotta be the stupidest thing Iv heard all week, no offence, somebody obviously told you, just fill it up it will be fine,if the gasket thing was realy an issue Im shure the gasket company, that makes there living designing and selling gaskets would put a big red warning on the box, also, sometimes the heater hoses for your regulator will be t'd off the heater hoses, it's better to just take the heater hose off the water pump( or intake) and run it in one side and out the other to the fire wall, it will freez up way less this way, and have less chances of air bubbles, the mixture should only be set with a 4 gas analizer or it will be out to lunch

apefrill
03-03-2007, 10:49 PM
The coolant is low because i'm filling it to break in the motor, was told coolant shouldnt be left in a new motor because the headgaskets will soften and let go. My problem now is how to get this air bubble at the vaporiser gone...

If your coolant is low, its just going to continue to freeze up. Fill it right up, run it, then top it up again until it won't take any more

gordwould
03-03-2007, 10:56 PM
I dont know who told you about your head gaskets, but its gotta be the stupidest thing Iv heard all week, no offence, somebody obviously told you, just fill it up it will be fine,if the gasket thing was realy an issue Im shure the gasket company, that makes there living designing and selling gaskets would put a big red warning on the box, also, sometimes the heater hoses for your regulator will be t'd off the heater hoses, it's better to just take the heater hose off the water pump( or intake) and run it in one side and out the other to the fire wall, it will freez up way less this way, and have less chances of air bubbles, the mixture should only be set with a 4 gas analizer or it will be out to lunch
[iagree]

sparkes3
03-03-2007, 11:15 PM
check fluids

J20
03-03-2007, 11:36 PM
I dont know who told you about your head gaskets, but its gotta be the stupidest thing Iv heard all week, no offence, somebody obviously told you, just fill it up it will be fine,if the gasket thing was realy an issue Im shure the gasket company, that makes there living designing and selling gaskets would put a big red warning on the box, also, sometimes the heater hoses for your regulator will be t'd off the heater hoses, it's better to just take the heater hose off the water pump( or intake) and run it in one side and out the other to the fire wall, it will freez up way less this way, and have less chances of air bubbles, the mixture should only be set with a 4 gas analizer or it will be out to lunch

yup[iagree]

tenpack
03-03-2007, 11:53 PM
my engine builder ( scott at Dun-Rite performance) told me about not leaving the coolant in.It was news to me but with a known engine builder i figured he knows a hell of a lot more than me.

The coolant lines are as follows: 90* elbow out of intake over t-stat to vaporiser, through vaporiser then off into the cab. The rad was filled right to the top and was monitered so it didnt go down. The truck never ran long enough to open the t-stat.

As for the mixture, well i did fiddle with the screw on the left. It runs decent where the screw is now, just the vaporiser freezes up.


I will get pictures tommorow to show how everything is up if need be.

m j
03-04-2007, 12:44 AM
sounds like an Impco
if it is, the small screw is the idle mixture
the big one is the main jet

you have to have antifreeze in the reg

HEAVY METAL
03-04-2007, 06:40 AM
piss onit.. thats what i did onthe whipsaw....

Growly Gorilla
03-04-2007, 08:59 AM
So I better go drain the coolant out of my vehicles then,don't want head gasket problems.:p

That has to be one of the stupidest things I've heard,thanks for the laugh.[cheers]

Chewtoy
03-04-2007, 09:05 AM
Agreed that if it starts, then freezes up, you aren't getting coolant to, or flowing through the vaporizer. I come from Alberta, where propane vehicles run in -30 all the time. Something you might try is (if you have a block heater), plug it in for an hour or two to warm the coolant. Also, vaporizers I find are often on the inner fender, and are higher than the rad cap, making it very difficult to fill the lines, but the rad looks full. There are flushing T-s that go in the line and allow you to burp the line and fill with the rad cap on... basically a plastic 5/8" T fitting with a cap on the T.

Sounds like the lines are hooked up correctly, BUT, does you heater use one of those block off valves that shuts coolant flow down through the heater core if the heater is off? Crank heater to max if it does or coolant won't flow. Last option would be have a big pail of warm water on hand, and pour over vaporizer to keep it thawed.

I had a 77 Bronco with 351C on propane. I could freeze it up on a +20 day by flooring it. It would stall, then start in less than a minute because it was warm out.... I learned about propain the hard way, it works or it doesn't.

tenpack
03-04-2007, 10:37 AM
the idea for the T-fitting is a good one, ill look into that today. The heater is like you described, so ill put the heater to max.

About the coolant, i meant only on a brand new engine with new gaskets.I was told not to leave the coolant in before the engine has been broken in because they headgasket hasent fully sealed yet, and if left in before it will absorb into the new gasket and it will fail. Glad i could make some people laugh.

And i did pour hot water on the mixer, it did help a bit but not fully.

FU Toolbag
03-04-2007, 11:46 AM
I've frozen my mixers quite regularly, usually my fault. If the collant is low, it don't go. I've used solid pipe to place the mixer directly beside the evaporator with the lockoff directly piped to it. First of all, no hoses to worry about. The entire setup is compact and right ontop of the engine. I also never run the Y conectors. Run through the evaoprator ten into the heater core. If your truck chugs at all, crank up the heat in the cab. If no heat, your mixer is frozen and shut it down now before it freezes solid. Letting it sit for a couple minutes and topping up coolant usuially works. If you have heat, then your probably out of fuel.

As far as the startup/breakin time goes, take out the t-stat and break her in right, full of coolant. Running no coolant for the breakin, not the smartest idea, I hope tha isn't an indicator as to the engine you have now.

m j
03-04-2007, 12:20 PM
can you post a pic of the coolant lines to the reg?
if there is a valve in the heater coolant lines you have to remove it or reroute so that it doesnt impede flow to the reg
what is this in?

trailburban
03-04-2007, 01:07 PM
the reg should be in parallel with the heater core from what i've seen. So if thats how yours is set up then the heater valve position shouldn't matter.
also, the thermostat shouldn't need to open inorder for coolant to flow to the heater core and mixer. if the coolant doesn't flow with the stat closed then you have the coolant lines plumbed to the wrong side of the thermostat.

keep the coolant topped up, if you drain the coolant then the block will not cool down properly. Also, with the coolant drained, air will be in the system promoting bacterial and fungal growth which will build up on the walls of all water passages resulting in poor heat transfer because it acts as an insulator.

if you have too high of a bottle pressure then the reg will have to great of a pressure drop across it causing it to become excessivly cold. if you are metering in too much propane then that will cause it to freeze up along with many other problems.

best bet is to fill the coolant, lower the regulator to below the rad cap or install a new rad cap at the highest point in the system (rad cap is supposed to be on the highest point in the system, some people even put an extension on the rad neck in order to keep it in the same location), and rev it up with a load on the engine so it builds up some good heat.

if you run it up to temp with the rad cap off (while parked) then you can top up the coolant when the thermostat opens.

10.5:1 is a pretty low compression for a propane setup (my opinion).

tenpack
03-04-2007, 05:30 PM
Thanks for all the info.

THe engine has shy a bit north of 10.5:1, not quite 11.

I'll get pictures of the engine right now:

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=4910204

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=4910205

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=4910206

The hoses as as follows: 90* elbow from intake to mixer, through mixer and out another house to the heater.

The tank is 50-60% full.

m j
03-04-2007, 05:38 PM
looks like an 80ish chevy?
there is no valve on the heater, maybe on an AC equiped it might have one??
take the heater core out of the circuit and try again

tenpack
03-04-2007, 05:45 PM
83 chev.

I'll look into removing the heater lines.

Chewtoy
03-04-2007, 06:56 PM
Hmmmm... plugged heater core? If the coolant level is up, and it's flowing, it's hard to freeze.

tenpack
03-04-2007, 07:05 PM
Hmmmm... plugged heater core? If the coolant level is up, and it's flowing, it's hard to freeze.

Thats another possibility. Talked to my cousin today whos a mechanic, he suggested a vaccum system that will suck in coolant and fill all the little dead spots plus find out if i have a leak(which ive checked thoroughly). Sounds like a good idea, ill call him tommorow night and get more info.

The mixer ran nicely when previously set-up, nothing has been altered.

tenpack
03-05-2007, 10:46 PM
looked at a buddys set up in his 85 chev, hes got his vaporiser on the driver side fender on an angle, but the big different i noticed is that the pressure line to the vaporiser is from the bung in the top of the water pump where as mine is in the intake.

Im assuming the water pump outlet is more pressure and more flow, so im looking to change that that way the coolant line is straighter and also more pressure and flow. We'll see how it works.

m j
03-05-2007, 11:38 PM
the intake port is not the pressure that is the return
that is why I asked for images of where your coolant lines are, I could only see one in the images you provided

tenpack
03-06-2007, 08:30 AM
pictures of the whole setup:

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=4920766

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=4920765

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=4920764

There is a hose from my rad to heater, heater to top inlet on vaporiser, from vaporiser to intake.

m j
03-06-2007, 06:24 PM
I never figured out why they ran to the rad like that, never owned one of those.

you do not have a valve in the heater system, no AC basic system uses a flapper door to divert air around the heater core.

I know it works using the water pump and intake ports as that is how I ran mine

1st swing - reverse the lines at the reg. water flow looks to be from the intake to the rad and the way you have it it would need to push an airbubble down to clear it.

2nd swing - use antifreeze in the system

3rd swing change the rad connection to the water pump suction side unless someone can tell us why it is in the rad.

brothergrimms
03-06-2007, 07:09 PM
i see why your havin problems put two ys in use bottum one to go to the rad you will not have air buddles any more put one y in the top hose thats the one of intake so it feeds both the heater and the mixer.then put the other one into the return hose thats one goes into your rad.you shuold now have both work togeither not against one neither your tryin to push all the water thuoght the mixer all at the same time the mixer has small holes.i have it set up like this i never had it freeze up on me put on a fresh 383 storker just put on my 454 too no freeze ups so gave it a try.[cheers]

brothergrimms
03-06-2007, 07:13 PM
call me at 778-552-5906 if you need more info.[cheers]

Murd0c
03-06-2007, 07:17 PM
by chance if ya need a new mixer let me know I can hook ya up

m j
03-06-2007, 08:05 PM
I tried the Ys and didnt like it
full flow is not going to hurt anything, it might even save your heater core from being over pressured and blown

brothergrimms
03-06-2007, 08:22 PM
it mite be what he needs [cheers]

automan
03-06-2007, 08:28 PM
did the vaporizer work before?
the only thing i see is lots of heater hose going up and down,,chance for air lock but once you get flow through it ,it should be fine

intake port is pressure
some water pumps have suction port and pressure port,sometimes one or the other or both

the reason for the heater to rad route is to reduce vapor lock and improves coolant flow through the engine(takes away the recycle route)

m j
03-06-2007, 08:54 PM
I do not think there really is a "pressure" side
the whole system is pressurized by temperature not by a pump
you have flow
the flow at the intake is the end of the system, the flow (suction) at the pump is the start of the system
you have a port to tap directly into the flow at the pump

trailburban
03-06-2007, 10:56 PM
Um....

you want to have one heater hose connected to the rear of the block where the hot coolant is, this is the hose that the water uses to get to the vap.
the next hose goes from the vap to the coolant pump suction (same as connecting it to the radiator).
you don't want to put the vap in series with the heater core because the heater core is a restiction to flow meaning less flow through the vap.
the vap may have directional flow (i don't know)
use Y connectors, make sure they are pointing the right way or you will get very little flow.
if you want to check flow then splice in a chunk of clear pipe (plexi tube)
there is a side that has more pressure than the other, as with any system containing a pump.

tenpack
03-07-2007, 08:38 AM
The whole set-up worked before, and it worked very well. The engine dropped a rod, put a new engine in. The system has not changed at all. My best though it that there is a bubble in the lines somewhere.

HEAVY METAL
03-07-2007, 08:45 AM
did ya piss on it?

brothergrimms
03-07-2007, 10:51 PM
did you use a old or new themasat and what temp i use 184c.the themasat mite not be openin up and it dont mater if its new check it by dropin in boilin water if you pull it.[cheers]

trailburban
03-07-2007, 11:43 PM
thermostats are designed to fail open not closed. if it was jammed shut though, the engine would overheat and the vap wouldn't be freezing up.
if the stat has fail and is always open then the engine will take a vey long time to warm up and that could be the cause of the freezing up.

brothergrimms
03-07-2007, 11:51 PM
if you look at pics it comes of the intake look first.

tenpack
03-08-2007, 08:30 AM
thats what i thought. Ive got a 3day weekend coming up so ill be working on it a lot more. I put a brand new 160* t-stat in.

Thanks for all the help, ill keep you posted

m j
03-08-2007, 06:29 PM
you have no flow in the reg, temperature doesnt matter
remove the air

HEAVY METAL
03-08-2007, 06:36 PM
thermostats are designed to fail open not closed. if it was jammed shut though, the engine would overheat and the vap wouldn't be freezing up.
if the stat has fail and is always open then the engine will take a vey long time to warm up and that could be the cause of the freezing up.


well than why the time does my truvck overheat and i have no interior heat everytime i go thru a thermostat..... ive only seen them stuck shut...

trailburban
03-10-2007, 12:02 AM
can't tell you without looking at it but if your thermosatat fails closed (which it shouldn't), then all the coolant flow will be forced through the heater core and you would get a lot of heat in the cab.
you're heater core will get coolant flow before your thermostat opens, otherwise you would have to wait for the vehicle to reach operating temperature before your can start to thaw the windows in the winter.

all thermostats I've seen fail to the open position allowing the coolant to pass through them (as if they were placed in hot water)

i'f you're going through as many thermostats as you are implying then I would think you have a cooling system issue that is lurking under the hood.

tenpack
03-25-2007, 04:40 PM
got it fixed a couple weeks ago, but the end result was a large air pocket going into the vaporiser( as said before) i bought a air bleeder off the HELP! shelf in lordco, installed it and used it to fill the line going into the reg. and it works flawlessly.

brothergrimms
03-25-2007, 05:54 PM
good to hear boken in yet come out when it is[cheers]

tenpack
03-25-2007, 07:25 PM
its at dun-rite getting timed and other little stuff, should be picked it up tommorow. Cant wait, then i gotta deal with the front end.

Ginger Snaps
03-25-2007, 08:40 PM
just scrap it and buy a ford bud all the kool kids are :)

brothergrimms
03-26-2007, 02:52 AM
own'll rich kids buy fords their always buyin parts for them..:happy0045: go fuck yourself

eastvanmikee
03-26-2007, 10:19 PM
I always drill a 1/8 inch hole in the thermostat if it doesn't come with a built in bleeder when I run propane, just to help burp[cheers] out the air. Many frustrating moments on the side of the road until I figured this one out.

tenpack
03-26-2007, 10:53 PM
y'know, i was thinking of doing that but i never got that desperate, that bleeder works well. The cummins ISB's have 2 types of t-stats: 1 regular one and 1 with several small holes in it. Dont remeber why, just something i remmeber.

m j
03-27-2007, 05:49 PM
I always drill mine

tenpack
03-28-2007, 09:23 PM
the motor runs mint. She doesnt like idling cold, but the idle is a tad low. When shes warm, she runs like a hot damn. Cant complain at all, the propane is nice cause its a bit cheaper. One tip, use a big air filter for propane. The Mixers dont only suck down but also from the side, i was using an older intake that pretty was choking the engine, tossed a 4''x14'' open element on, was a nice add on.

m j
03-28-2007, 09:56 PM
fram ca3492 or something like that is the element I have been using