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View Full Version : Beefing up Toy running gear


bakelite
05-25-2006, 06:32 PM
Gonna build a Toy...any suggestions, pictures, ideas...would be a great help. What's the best way to beef up the axle housings and diffs....pipe caps? gussetts?.... remember I can't get anything here in the boonies.

Wanna build it with FIBC help....I got a 83 good runner, good frame, no body parts worth a shit...got an 84 with a nice cab, bad frame, crap flatdeck. Need to know what kinda stuff I can get away with....anyway, I don't know shit and am counting on you guys...pictures are way good. [cheers]

crazy j
05-25-2006, 07:21 PM
how big do you want to go?
it basically boils down to power vs. tire size and driving habits.
i would say your limited to about 250hp and 35" rubber with lockers to keep it reliable.
ive seen 40s and bigger, but with a bagged stock engine.
weight would also be a consideration. a little buggy will put less stress than a loaded down 4runner.

as far as mods, the common ones are

v6 thirds (bolt right in to 4 cyl housing)
aftermarket birfields
half an 8" pipe cap for a diff gaurd
a gusset along the long side of the early axles. the newer ones have one. your '83 should have one, but not as big as an 85
using an ifs rear housing for 3" extra width and bigger drums
using ifs yokes which allow for more angle

http://www.allprooffroad.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=27

http://www.allprooffroad.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=29

StinkFinger
05-25-2006, 08:19 PM
how big do you want to go?
it basically boils down to power vs. tire size and driving habits.
i would say your limited to about 250hp and 35" rubber with lockers to keep it reliable.
ive seen 40s and bigger, but with a bagged stock engine.
weight would also be a consideration. a little buggy will put less stress than a loaded down 4runner.

as far as mods, the common ones are

v6 thirds (bolt right in to 4 cyl housing)
aftermarket birfields
half an 8" pipe cap for a diff gaurd
a gusset along the long side of the early axles. the newer ones have one. your '83 should have one, but not as big as an 85
using an ifs rear housing for 3" extra width and bigger drums
using ifs yokes which allow for more angle

http://www.allprooffroad.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=27

http://www.allprooffroad.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=29
whats this never herd of it the drive shaft cvs on an eraly style provide more angle than a ifs one

StinkFinger
05-25-2006, 08:23 PM
truss it shave it and build some caps
fj80 high pinion 3rds are nice if you can find one so are the electric locking ones the v6 third is also a nice up grade ball gussets have alos been known to help

bakelite
05-25-2006, 11:32 PM
Please remember you are dealing with a simpleton here. I don't know where to get anything, up here you just get a dumb look in the parts stores when you ask for anything they consider odd.

I was looking at my trucks tonite, the one I am going to use the frame from is an 83 with the 22R, 4 spd, looks like it has a shackle lift and the springs have a pretty good arc still but I worry about the shackles. I want to just get it on the road in a fairly capable fashion this year in case I sell my other truck, I have 34" tsl super swampers for it, narrow ones. I want to keep it as low as possible yet have clearance so I need to do some fender cutting which is okay. My axles don't have any gussetts. I wouldn't know what a birfield was if you hit me with one. I do want to lock the rear end, I guess Detroit soft locker?
Just learning by doing...not used to this Toyota stuff...thanks..[cheers]

Big_Ern
05-26-2006, 01:43 AM
you won't find any of this stuf at the local parts store...

birfields are similar to a cv shaft and are used in the knuckle instead of u-joint on the toy front axle. http://www.longfieldsuperaxles.com/images/30spline.jpg
Owen (Stingfinger) can heat treat/ upgrade them for you. I beleive he charges $50 per side to upgrade them.


other than that a diff cap is nice so you don't bash in your ring gear. like they mentioned half of an 8" pipe cap works great -- can use the other half in the rear.

gussets you can make from some box tube. 3"x4" (I think??) would be the best size to use. Something like this:
http://www.trail-gear.com/images/axlegusset-upper-600.jpg
Gets welded on top of the front axle on the long side between the 3rd & spring perch.

you don't necessarily need the pipe cap or gussets unless you want to jump your truck and bash into rocks, but they're nice to have. Even with 34's and an open diff you really shouldn't need to upgrade the birfs, but i would, because changing a birf on the trails SUCKS.

Big_Ern
05-26-2006, 01:45 AM
to get some ideas of what out there for upgrades check out some of the major toy aftermarket websites:

http://www.trail-gear.com/
http://www.marlincrawler.com/
http://www.frontrangeoffroadfab.com/
http://www.allprooffroad.com/
http://www.longfieldsuperaxles.com/

Big_Ern
05-26-2006, 01:48 AM
I think someone mentioned, but the IFS rear axle is 3" wider and has larger (better) drum brakes. Also uses thicker axles tubes so its a bit stronger. not really a necessity, but the extra width for more stability is always nice

kamloopsyota
05-26-2006, 03:21 AM
i guess theres no canadian equivelant of marlin or trail gear?? i remember someone posting that an 83 diff is abit different to an 84+ is that true??

bakelite
05-26-2006, 07:59 AM
Thanks! [cheers] Lots to look at and figure out. [36]




Thanks Big Ern....good stuff mang

Big_Ern
05-26-2006, 01:34 PM
[cheers]






i guess theres no canadian equivelant of marlin or trail gear?? i remember someone posting that an 83 diff is abit different to an 84+ is that true??

not really, but Big Country Customs is a distributor for trail-gear. Apaarently NSOR is now too....? http://www.trail-gear.com/dealers.html

kamloopsyota
05-26-2006, 02:02 PM
what, god damn, buddy up here has a business and wanted to become a trail gear vendor but they said piss off to him because BCC was the british columbia and area vendor.

Big_Ern
05-26-2006, 02:04 PM
NSOR is a major company though. Tough for them to turn down that kinda business. But do agree that they need one in the interior. They probably just don't know how our province is laided out and the major areas etc

kamloopsyota
05-26-2006, 02:19 PM
interior would be good to halfway between van and alberta

the-t-man
05-27-2006, 09:54 PM
there is also evoltion in calgary for t.g.

bakelite
05-28-2006, 09:47 AM
Well I put the tires on yesterday, definately gonna need to do some cutting, the box is rusty pretty bad but mostly useable. The front end looks like it has those pieces for gussetting, on the bottom of the long side of the axle housing. Some springs are broken so I need springs...any ideas on this? Good news, the frame looks mint, I cleaned it up pretty good and no rust.:)
Bad news...motor smokes like hell...runs good so maybe just rings.

Recent life developements have forced me to go cheap on this.[27] For now anyway. ;)

Big_Ern
05-28-2006, 12:21 PM
Check the frame carefully joe. They rust from the inside out so you can't tell by just cleaning the outside. best way to check is to hit it with a ballpeen hammer along the length of the frame. Especially around the back of the cab & spring hangers.



For springs, a great combo is to use the rear leafs up front (usually a hybrid pack of 5-7 leafs from mix n matching a couple rear leaf packs), and then fab some new mounts in the back to run some 56"ish long chevy or f150 springs.

bakelite
05-28-2006, 04:16 PM
Thanks, I did check it out good with a hammer, it still has the original rubber flaps covering most of it even under the box....which is toast. Should I spray anything inside the frame, there's lots of stock holes I could use, some oil or something?

It looks like someone put lift springs in it but one front one is broken, the back has some homemade shackle lift crap I am gonna get rid of. Between all the spare springs I have I should be able to make a good front set up and find some at the wreckers...thanks again Big Ern.....I try looking on Pirate as there is a lot of info there I know but on dial up that site is sooooooo slow.

Got a picture available of what the shock hangers for the rear should look like so I can make a set? 56" from mount to mount? [cheers]

I put the 34" TSL's on it, little fender trimming and I think I will be alright there. It's the narrow ones, 9.5 I think..looks cool. :)

bakelite
05-28-2006, 04:19 PM
oh, another weird thing I found, it's got power steering, it don't line up too well with the crank pulley but the steering box has "TOYODA" with a D no shit..stamped on it, is there a grey market for Toy parts?

Big_Ern
05-28-2006, 04:49 PM
Toyoda is the company that made all of toyota's steering parts. you'll notice that is stamped on the steering box as well. AISIN/SEICO is the other company that made a lot of parts for toyota, so you'll probably see that printed on a few things as well (clutch, brakes, hubs, etc)

The power steering pump should be driven off of the 3rd pulley grove (closest to the rad). The crank pulley itself only has 2 groves on it, and the 3rd one is a bolt on piece, so maybe someone installed the PS onto a non PS motor and didn't add the 3rd pulley grove?


If you can clean out the inside of the frame really well you might want to consider coating it with a rubberized undercoating type stuff. i was talking to Daryl and he said there is one made by ProForm (I think) that has some rust inhibitor stuff in it. I'm planning to do this to my frame soon. Just make sure it is bone dry before you coat it so you're not trapping any water in. I have heard of guys spraying old oil in there as well. Should work.


One thing to note for using rear leafs up front is that the center pin is offset to the front, so it will move your axle forward ~2". So you may need to modify your steering a bit. But its well worth it because those springs flex really well and moving the axle forward give you a better approach angle. Here's a great link on pirate about the rear springs up front: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=265669

As for the rear spring hangers... here's a couple pics from Trail-Gear's website

my rear hangers are similar to this style
http://www.trail-gear.com/images/welded-hangers-600.jpg


another rear hanger style -- either will work just as well
http://www.trail-gear.com/images/welded-hangers-600.jpg


For the rear shackle mount:
http://www.trail-gear.com/images/shackle-mount-600.jpg

Depending on which springs you use, where you locate the axle, and how long of a shackle you use, you might not need a new shackle mount

bakelite
05-28-2006, 04:58 PM
Gotta love learning stuff, never knew about the Toyoda thing, thanks. Yeah only two pulleys one the crank, I suppose one can be gotten from a wrecker. I will spray some oil inside the frame for now. Thanks for the link and the info man...much appreciated. [cheers]

Big_Ern
05-28-2006, 05:01 PM
ya, grab the extra pulley from the wrecker. Should be four 10mm bolts holding it on[cheers]

bakelite
05-29-2006, 03:26 PM
"run some 56"ish long chevy or f150 springs"


so, wider springs than toyota springs? [cheers]

if so would that fit with the u-bolt spring plates, was gonna order a u-bolt flip kit.

Big_Ern
05-29-2006, 06:24 PM
they're the same width 2.5" just longer so a toy u-bolt flip kit will work just fine. Early stock toy rears are about 48" long. Ford F150s are 56 I think and Chevy fullsize blazer are 53 I think (or its the other way around) Both work really well. the long 63" chevy springs out of a p/u work good too, but IMO they're a little too long

bakelite
05-29-2006, 06:50 PM
Wierd, my springs are all 2 and 1/4" wide someone must have swapped them out at one time, I measured the u-bolts and they are wide enough for 2 and 1/2"...not that I would re-use them, just saying. I got lots of Chevy springs. [36] Thanks again.[cheers]