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Toy_Runner
12-21-2005, 07:53 PM
i know this is proubly on here a lot but what are pro and cons of a welder rear vs locker?
thanks

1985 toy 4x4, 3 in lift with 33 pro comp mudders
Craig

FINGERS
12-21-2005, 07:58 PM
welded your posi all the freakin time ,tire wear


Go Hard Or Go Home....Just Don't Go Home Hard

Toyquad
12-21-2005, 08:36 PM
welded good.... freee..... if it breaks its free..... no banging... i read this somewhere and man is it true after driving someones piece with a locker....




" i prefer the chirp chirp chirp of a welded diff over the click click click BANG of a locker"

pistnbroke
12-21-2005, 08:45 PM
the price $$$$ difference






I'm not an alcoholic
I'm a drunk
alcoholics go to meetings!

Big_Ern
12-21-2005, 09:42 PM
weld the bitch up.

I'm welded F&R now[36]

---------------------
Jeeps are like tampons....
Every pussy needs one[f]

TeaBag: '80 Toy "4Runner" on 36" SXs with dual t-cases
Daily Driver: '83 RX-7
Old rig: '89 4Runner 'The Last Ride (http://www.funinbc.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14144)'

trevyota
12-21-2005, 09:46 PM
what a welded front like on the street if your nto locked in.

-----------------------

91 runner>SS<
(shitty and stock)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y219/teij/signal.gif

Big_Ern
12-21-2005, 10:18 PM
think about what you just said and then see if you can figure out the answer...

---------------------
Jeeps are like tampons....
Every pussy needs one[f]

TeaBag: '80 Toy "4Runner" on 36" SXs with dual t-cases
Daily Driver: '83 RX-7
Old rig: '89 4Runner 'The Last Ride (http://www.funinbc.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14144)'

gnu_42
12-21-2005, 11:10 PM
can you buy rear lockers that only lock when you manually flip a switch or something or are they always locked?

lincoln locked
12-22-2005, 05:40 AM
i liked the welded diff ,but the tire wear was horable, my truck is a daly driver and i tow a trailer, i ran 35" boggers swapped tires for the street and still broke the side gear ,just put in a lock right and i like it , it cost i think around 350,00 bucks,didnt get to drive my truck much befor i got into an accedent, but it seemed to work prety good . oh and it cost me 450,00 to replace the third member after it broke , thats on a 92 4-runner 456 gears my 2 cents :)

1992,4-runner 3.0, 5-speed 456 gears welded in the back 3" body lift 15x35x16 wide boggers,nurf bars,fully loaded,leather front to back

Big_Ern
12-22-2005, 07:47 AM
Shit I could buy 9 3rds for my truck at that price! I guess there's a downside to having gears and a V6 3rd

How did you break the side gear?? Did a weld break or the spline strip? I'm just trying to picture how you would break them if its weled up solid.






And Yes, gnu_42 you can buy a toyota TRD electric locker out of the Taco's that is open until you flip a switch on your dash then it becomes a spool. ARB also makes something similar but its activated by air and is less reliable. Both are big $$$$$$$$

---------------------
Jeeps are like tampons....
Every pussy needs one[f]

TeaBag: '80 Toy "4Runner" on 36" SXs with dual t-cases
Daily Driver: '83 RX-7
Old rig: '89 4Runner 'The Last Ride (http://www.funinbc.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14144)'

highrider_44s
12-22-2005, 08:04 AM
if you drive the truck 90% off road then welding the rear is definetly a cheap and effective way of increasing you offroad capabilities. but like prev stated you also increase tire wear. everytime you go around a corner on pavment they will be chirping and also tearing a little more tire off as well as it being harder on you axles. Lockers are nice because you get the best of both worlds but it just like everyone else out here you'll probably have to look in your pocket then determin the best route for your budget. One other thing to consider if you have the money for one but a not really sure if its worth a locker over welding. Just start by welding it up and trying it out for awhile and if you don't like the feel of being lincon locked then fork out for the locker the kits usually replace our old carrier anyway so basicly you would loose nothing.

Big_Ern
12-22-2005, 08:53 AM
"as well as it being harder on you axles"

That's not really much of an argument since the Toy rear axles are virtually indestructable. I have only ever heard of 2 or 3 breaking and that was guys running sticky 40+ tires down in places like moab where you've got unlimited traction.


tire wear might be an issue, but there's trade offs for every mod we do to our rigs. Mine only gets driven to the trails, so I don't have much first hand experience.


---------------------
Jeeps are like tampons....
Every pussy needs one[f]

TeaBag: '80 Toy "4Runner" on 36" SXs with dual t-cases
Daily Driver: '83 RX-7
Old rig: '89 4Runner 'The Last Ride (http://www.funinbc.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14144)'

trevyota
12-22-2005, 09:16 AM
ok i understand that it wont be "locked" but is it gunna put any excessive wear on any of the........right

answered many questions........

i'm asking about wear and stress like i treat it like a princess....



-----------------------

91 runner>SS<
(shitty and stock)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y219/teij/signal.gif

Big_Ern
12-22-2005, 09:19 AM
[c] if the hubs are unlocked nothing turns except the wheel bearings so there is no wear or bad street manners etc.

---------------------
Jeeps are like tampons....
Every pussy needs one[f]

TeaBag: '80 Toy "4Runner" on 36" SXs with dual t-cases
Daily Driver: '83 RX-7
Old rig: '89 4Runner 'The Last Ride (http://www.funinbc.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14144)'

bakelite
12-22-2005, 12:12 PM
If you welded the rear and drove mostly on the highway I imagine the tire wear would not be as bad as driving in the city? How does the welded rear end handle on the highway? Would you weld up your daily driver if you had a 30 mile round trip(mostly highway) to work every day? [cheers]

FTW

Big_Ern
12-22-2005, 12:21 PM
ya I would

the only time you notice it is turning sharp

welded rear sucks in the ice, but a locker is even worse IMO because it will snap in and out. Welded will always be locked so there's no sudden jolts of the locker ratcheting to break the ass end free.

---------------------
Jeeps are like tampons....
Every pussy needs one[f]

TeaBag: '80 Toy "4Runner" on 36" SXs with dual t-cases
Daily Driver: '83 RX-7
Old rig: '89 4Runner 'The Last Ride (http://www.funinbc.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14144)'

bakelite
12-22-2005, 12:32 PM
cool..thanks big ern[cheers]

FTW

82 yota
12-22-2005, 12:53 PM
toy rear ends are not indestructible, if both tires are doing about 80kph on snow and then they both hit dry concrete, trust me they break, it just takes alot to break them

Big_Ern
12-22-2005, 01:01 PM
no shit. I was refering to how normal people wheel and drive, not dumbasses who do burnouts in 3rd gear on snow and expect nothing to happen when they hit dry pavement[wako]

---------------------
Jeeps are like tampons....
Every pussy needs one[f]

TeaBag: '80 Toy "4Runner" on 36" SXs with dual t-cases
Daily Driver: '83 RX-7
Old rig: '89 4Runner 'The Last Ride (http://www.funinbc.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14144)'

Toy_Runner
12-22-2005, 01:15 PM
my truck is a daily driver, and wheel it on weekeends.
how is the tire wear on a rear end with locker?

1985 toy 4x4, 3 in lift with 33 pro comp mudders
Craig

Toyquad
12-22-2005, 03:53 PM
actually i think a welded diff is easier on the entire drivetrain then a cheap locker. Dont believe me..... drive my truck and then metallica1's....... you'll see the difference. Might be different with a good detroit locker....


I dont daily drive my truck as i get a ride to work.... but whenever else i need to get somewhere i drive my truck and i still do like 300km a week in it..... and tire wear isnt that bad.


welded and lockers both suck in snow and ice.... at least with welded you dont have to try and predict when the locker will kick in. Im welded front and rear and didnt have single problem going to clear creek last weeekend........ haha even backed up the long icy hill[49]

F150HULK
12-22-2005, 04:17 PM
My welded diff is hard on
Tires
Motor mounts
Tranny mounts
Tranny
even torqued the motor enough to have the clutch fan hit the shroud and then shred it to pieces.
Maybe its just the way I drive?
But I love it anyway! Esspiecially when its squeeling in the gas station and everyone looks at me like there's something wrong with my truck.
Dumbass's
[36][36][36][36] Weld it dude!!!!

Just want to kick the snot out of it every weekend and not have to fix it all week. Is that too much to ask? Ford Piece of crap!

Rebulon Refurbulater
12-22-2005, 04:38 PM
Well
Spools and weldments in the centre section of a road worthy vehicle will not pass a V.I.
Welding is okay for off road only use but is actually dangerous on pavement in certain situations.......if you have an accident and someone is seriously injured the police dissect your vehicle to ensure road worthyness.Whether you are at fault or not is of no consequence.....if your vehicle is not legal your fucked!
Locking diffs are....to the best of my knowlege.....accepted as street worthy and have way better road manners than a welded rear in any cercumstance.....I have run ARB's in a cj5 ....posi in cj8...detroit infront and cookoo clock inback of early jimmy,welded rear in a bronco 11.,.... and currently run a detroit in the rear and a lockright in the front of a kingpin f-350.......................................proper lockers are the way to go
Pete

Rebulon Refurbulater
12-22-2005, 04:39 PM
I have also replaced many broken toy axles and birfs.......hardly indestructable

Big_Ern
12-22-2005, 04:42 PM
[wtf] show me where thats written in the Regs

---------------------
Jeeps are like tampons....
Every pussy needs one[f]

TeaBag: '80 Toy "4Runner" on 36" SXs with dual t-cases
Daily Driver: '83 RX-7
Old rig: '89 4Runner 'The Last Ride (http://www.funinbc.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14144)'

Big_Ern
12-22-2005, 04:47 PM
quote:Originally posted by Rebulon Refurbulater

I have also replaced many broken toy axles and birfs.......hardly indestructable


Last I checked there's no birfs in the rear axle...[16]

---------------------
Jeeps are like tampons....
Every pussy needs one[f]

TeaBag: '80 Toy "4Runner" on 36" SXs with dual t-cases
Daily Driver: '83 RX-7
Old rig: '89 4Runner 'The Last Ride (http://www.funinbc.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14144)'

lincoln locked
12-22-2005, 05:21 PM
[quote]Originally posted by Big_Ern

Shit I could buy 9 3rds for my truck at that price! I guess there's a downside to having gears and a V6 3rd

How did you break the side gear?? Did a weld break or the spline strip? I'm just trying to picture how you would break them if its weled up solid.

yes there's a down side to running the 456 v6 toy gears not readely avalable and if you need one in a pinch the auto wrekers will soak you,
cost me the big 450 bucks

the side gear broke 1/2" on the spline of the axel ,the 1/2 remaning wore off 1/2" of the axel spline and the rest of the side gear just spun on the axel. the heat from the welding weekend the side gear

but i liked the welded rear and if i did not have to drive it in town as my dd i would do it again. the wife's fj/40 will be welded front and rear


[36]

1992,4-runner 3.0, 5-speed 456 gears welded in the back 3" body lift 15x35x16 wide boggers,nurf bars,fully loaded,leather front to back

Big_Ern
12-22-2005, 05:25 PM
interesting. Did you weld the side gear to the carrier? or the spiders to the side gears? or both? just trying to picture how it would have broken like that....

---------------------
Jeeps are like tampons....
Every pussy needs one[f]

TeaBag: '80 Toy "4Runner" on 36" SXs with dual t-cases
Daily Driver: '83 RX-7
Old rig: '89 4Runner 'The Last Ride (http://www.funinbc.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14144)'

epic3
12-22-2005, 07:59 PM
Can you do a full float setup with manual hubs in a toy rear end then weld the center and when on the street just unlock one hub to my knowing warn makes one for the D44

Big_Ern
12-22-2005, 09:55 PM
yup. Sky Mfg sells a kit to do the same thing. I beleive they use the IFS wheel hubs and SA locking hubs bolted on in the rear some how. Sweet setup, especially if you want to flat tow your rig.

---------------------
Jeeps are like tampons....
Every pussy needs one[f]

TeaBag: '80 Toy "4Runner" on 36" SXs with dual t-cases
Daily Driver: '83 RX-7
Old rig: '89 4Runner 'The Last Ride (http://www.funinbc.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14144)'

HEAVY METAL
12-22-2005, 10:00 PM
both....


-----------------------



BETTER MY SISTER IN A WHORE HOUSE..... THAN MY BROTHER IN A JEEP...

lincoln locked
12-23-2005, 05:25 AM
[quote]Originally posted by Big_Ern

interesting. Did you weld the side gear to the carrier? or the spiders to the side gears? or both? just trying to picture how it would have broken like that....

well i had Trent at Truckworks weld it up for me ,it was the first v6 toy third he had done and he said we will see how well it would hold up no guarantees ,Trent builds some of those big land cruisers on 44" you see around, i am sure he did it right but the way he did it i dont know,not much of a welder myself[16]

1992,4-runner 3.0, 5-speed 456 gears welded in the back 3" body lift 15x35x16 wide boggers,nurf bars,fully loaded,leather front to back

Toy_Runner
12-23-2005, 01:49 PM
ya i think it is going to lincoln locked or miller locked[36]

1985 toy 4x4, 3 in lift with 33 pro comp mudders
Craig

Rebulon Refurbulater
12-24-2005, 03:54 PM
hey ern...
i believe that you should actually look into the "regs" yourself rather than relying on second hand knowlege or lack of it! :)
I will say it again .....just tyhink of the accident scenario.....every vehicle is scrutinized.......
I dont know how much you have to loose but for a few hundred bucks I'll take the most acceptd path on this one.....
not to say that i even remotly follow societel (sp?) rules but .........................................
each to his/her own ....well informed...decision...................
Oh and i'm glad you cleared up that .....NO BIRFS IN THE BACK.......thing ....man im sure we werte all confused about that one..... :)

Rebulon Refurbulater
12-24-2005, 04:15 PM
oh and a little more about accidents and weldments.........
First you must always maintain tire pressures within about 1 psi with a spooled axle or it will pull and push in a manner that requires some getting use to........
I dont know how familiar you all are with soft tissue and how easily human life is snuffed out but a friend of mine is a fireman in one of yhe towns goin up the sea to die er sky hiway and my wife is an R.N at surry hospital....now she drives a firefly....soon to upgraded? to a yaris and let me say that if there ever was an accident involving her car...her and eithe rof my 20 year old stepkids and a wheelin beast....i would be the first one screamin V.I....and you can bet everyone else wpuld do the same...............
Now im not sayin not to do as you please because i know that i carve my own path too....however....the decisions i make ...legal or not....i try to make fully informed and aware of the consequences.
If someone that was ................less experienced...for lack of a better expression.. welds hi/her diff and looses control on the highway because the tire pressures were uneven and one tire heated excessively and popped....or they encountered a slippy patch and through the complexities of forces lost control and collided with and killed someone or worse made them a vegtable and they said well BIG URN on the FIBC website said it was legal and great and all that then once again the police would be all over the modified off road vehicles, the people on this site and whom ever else they deemed responsible...

Look all im sayin is try to give anyone who asks ...to the best of your knowlege....both sides of the story.........if they are less experiencd and they see you have 60000 posts on a 4x4 website even if you have never driven a 4x4 off road you are probly seen as some type of "expert" especially if you are dispensing advice on technical questions.........................
my 2 cents whether neede or not......and im tired of typin :)

Big_Ern
12-24-2005, 08:59 PM
I still want to see where it says that in the regs

---------------------
Jeeps are like tampons....
Every pussy needs one[f]

TeaBag: '80 Toy "4Runner" on 36" SXs with dual t-cases
Daily Driver: '83 RX-7
Old rig: '89 4Runner 'The Last Ride (http://www.funinbc.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14144)'

Rebulon Refurbulater
12-25-2005, 08:10 AM
like i said.....get the 2 inch thick book and read it!
again......if you want to split hairs after a critical accident with lawers in a courtroom....be my guest.....just be prepared to do so and.....do whatever floats yer boat......:)

fourxtoy
01-12-2006, 08:57 PM
STAY ON TOPIC!!!!!!!!!!!
so who won locker or weld
locker for city and 4x4
and weld for 4x4 and highway
right?

Toy_Runner
01-12-2006, 09:28 PM
i would say if its a DD- locker
and if its weekend wheeler- weld it up

Always broke
01-13-2006, 01:08 AM
I found that on the highway that a welded rear was really nice it made the truck want to run alot more straight i only noticed a difference in town driving in the burbs with the steering turned all the way to the lock then you get a couple little chirps no big deal i will never put a locker in the rear the click click BANG is really hard on bearings and u-joints and end splines. but welded has it's draw backs on side hills that are really icy or really greasy once you put the power down you always go to the low side once you spin those tires .

Thats just my 4 cents :) :)

Metallica1
01-13-2006, 08:23 AM
right now i have a crappy lockright locker and its constantly making noises and locking when turning corners all that fun stuff... but thats the only bad thing i can say about it.

stuckle
01-13-2006, 08:41 AM
like i said.....get the 2 inch thick book and read it!
again......if you want to split hairs after a critical accident with lawers in a courtroom....be my guest.....just be prepared to do so and.....do whatever floats yer boat......:)

ur a fag

redman
01-13-2006, 08:57 AM
[36] [36] thanks for putting in my detroit pete

m j
01-13-2006, 06:03 PM
welded rear sucks in the ice, but a locker is even worse IMO because it will snap in and out

the only time a locker will "snap out" is if a tire overspeeds the ring gear, that is not going to happen on anything slippery.

the banging that happens occasionally is the locker re-engaging with the axle that was overspeeding the ringgear

I have never (unless I am checking the operation per the methods in the manual) heard any of my detroits (I have 3) make the clicking sounds that the cheapo lunchbox lockers make on every corner. in fact other then the rare bang they are silent.

I have welded an Auburn rear to go with a lunchbox front in a daily driven Bronco.
a week of that was enough to make him want real lockers.

the lunch box makes horrid sounds and needs to come out to see what is left of it.

in my experience detroits front and rear are the best way to go in winter conditions.
I had a Powerlock in the front of my chev and it had serious negative impact on steering in the slippery stuff, worse then a detroit IMO.
on a snow covered highway you would have to start feeding it steering input before you came to a corner, because it would not steer until you had enough pressure to overcome the friction in the limited slip. sometimes a ¼ turn of the wheel
then it would release and you got to countersteer it back to the needed amount of steering input to negotiate the corner
basically acts like a welded until you reach the breakaway point of the clutches, then goes open
of course when it is acting as an open you are slipping the clutches, wearing them.

Big_Ern
01-13-2006, 06:28 PM
Ya, you're right MJ I was thinking of the lunchboxes when I said they snap in and out, not a full detroit.

ri0
01-29-2006, 09:44 PM
is it just me or is it everything that has to do with modifying or welding to a vehical, Rebulon Refurbulator always says that its not a good idea, if you kill someone your fucked, and its gonna end up being your fault, because of the mods, and he always seems to mention certain people with there 6000 posts caugh (Big Ern) caugh only tells the pros of the mod

Big_Ern
01-29-2006, 09:47 PM
[15][15] I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed [c]

ri0
01-29-2006, 10:14 PM
but hey I don't know anything because I only have 108 posts

sparky
01-29-2006, 10:43 PM
how are u guys welding the rear diffs are they set up like the chevys??? had lots of experience with the chevy difs welding them up [cheers]

Big_Ern
01-30-2006, 01:58 AM
lots of different ways

for my rear I have the side gears welded to the carrier with the spiders and pin removed.

in the front I've got the side gears welded to the spider gears.

Different people welded them for me, and both are olding up great.

bakelite
01-30-2006, 08:19 AM
So, seriously thinking about welding the rear end in my truck, my Chev 3/4 ton but I have to drive quite a way on the highway to get to where I am going.....I don't want to spend a lot of money on it but I don't want to kill anyone either. From what I can gather here, welded rear works not bad on dry highways, shitty in town, I don't drive much in town unless I need to pick up something large. I need to run tires that are good on the highway so I am lacking traction if I wheel with you guys, a locker would make up for that a bit......so what do you think?...weld it?..c'mon push me over the edge! [cheers] [36]

Coporate 14 bolt, 4:10 33" Remington cookie cutters going to 35's asap.

Big_Ern
01-30-2006, 01:03 PM
I dunno how easy the chevy stuff is to swap out. But I'd weld it and see if you like it. You can always swap an open carrier back in.

makes a huge difference offroad

HEAVY METAL
01-30-2006, 01:24 PM
weld it yo.... love mine will never go back....besides i like chirpin the tires and now i odnt even have to use the gas to do it....

Nutbar
01-30-2006, 01:35 PM
I would weld it and see how you like it.Just make sure you put lots of weld in those spider gears they will have huge amounts of stress put on them afterwards.As far as dangers go I have yet to see anyone have any catastophic failures.The worst things I can see would be breaking the spiders in whichcase you would either get no drive (competely blown spiders) or get torque steer (one blown spider) or breaking axles same symptoms as before,except C clip axles (not toyotas no C clip)which can come out of the housing as there is now no C clip to retain it,that situation would be scarey at speed.

EIEIO
01-30-2006, 04:31 PM
I had a welded rear in my Samurai for almost a year, no complaints. I daily drove it 100+ km's a day. Sure I got a bit odd tire wear but thats just the laws of welded. Make sure you keep even tire pressure or you could have some problems. I drove it in the winter to and it was EXTREMELY easy to control in the snow. On ice, it doesn't matter if you have welded or locker, ice WINS!

BeerBaron666
01-30-2006, 04:53 PM
I run a full spool (same as welded) and its really hard on a set of boggers on the street and not just the rear tires it will push the front tires when your turning but your not gonna beat it for traction off road. I say weld it up if you don't like it take it out and try something else atleast welding is cheap if it don't work well your not much just some time[cheers]

TOYLESS
01-30-2006, 05:58 PM
I took the welded rear out and bucked up for a detroit.It makes a click every so often but much nicer on the tires!I guess it all depends on the cash flow and how much pavment driving you do?

sparky
01-30-2006, 07:02 PM
the way i was show was to take the pin out and the spiders and take the spider gear and like on a gm set up u weld 3 teeth skip 2 weld 3 more do this on both spiders then u have to roll them back in and but pin back in its a little hard to explain in type easier to show this way u still have a good carrier i have seen the carrier break if not welded proberly i have used this setup in my race cars for yrs and never had a problem [cheers]

bakelite
01-31-2006, 08:42 AM
okay.....anyone got a link that shows how to do this properly, no one up here seems to know how and I never done one before....thanks[cheers]

sparky
01-31-2006, 10:53 AM
there is no prober way of doing it when we are all trying to be cheap and make it work it just comes down to what u decided and run with it .... some are better then other depending on opinions try and try again>>>>
[51]

chev-ota
01-31-2006, 01:37 PM
mostly just money difference

so weld the shit out of it

that is what im doing to my toyota

Big_Ern
01-31-2006, 02:06 PM
just google for welded diff an you should find something