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View Full Version : narrowing down oil burning/pinging issue


thrillbilly
05-24-2013, 06:41 PM
99 ram 1500 5.2
276,000kms

was using oil, poor fuel mileage, and occasoinally puffing oil. also fouled #8 plug again and again (according to my old man, he was friends with the orginal owner)

ifound out about the intake manifold plenum gasket being an issue on these things.

took it all apart, manifold was coated in oil, entire thing was black on the inside.

cleaned it all up, resealed it with new gaskets, put it together. seemed to run muuuuch better. did a trip to merrit on may long and while there, noticed the oil pressure gauge drop to zero occasionally. topped up the oil (2.5L) and drove home. its been needing a liter or two every few days.

I thought the gasket maybe didnt seal, so i redid the plenum gasket and all other intake gaskets, AGAIN. it was slightly oily in there, definitely some buildup since i did it a week prior.

it seemed to run ok for a day, now back to puffing blue on accelleration, or after prolonged idle and blip the throttle it will puff a cloud.

also accompanied with pinging/detonation.. like the oil is burning with the mixture lowering the octane.

so basically its detonating on medium-heavy throttle, and burning blue often.
like at least a liter a day type burning.





my thoughts are either valve seals or piston rings? anyone have an idea by this paragraph of a story lol.

85chevy
05-24-2013, 06:44 PM
Compression test it. Dry then wet if the the pressure stays the same after the wet test its valves if its low if it increases with couple squirts of oil in the cylinder its rings they should all be within a specification for ur engine

thrillbilly
05-24-2013, 06:47 PM
not sure if its just from low oil or maybe a symptom of some kind of other issue, but when i come to a stop the oil pressure drops to 0 and check gauges light chimes. when i blip the gas it comes back up to 275 on the gauge, or just under half way. and when i start driving again it goes right up to 275 or just below half on the gauge. just when i come to a stop the gauge reads 0

thrillbilly
05-24-2013, 06:49 PM
Compression test it. Dry then wet if the the pressure stays the same after the wet test its valves if its low if it increases with couple squirts of oil in the cylinder its rings they should all be within a specification for ur engine


cool awesome ill look into this. i've done head gasket and engine swap but never fixed or diagnosed this much oil being burnt. thanks man.

4skin
05-24-2013, 08:35 PM
Is the PVC plugged but the loss of oil press when you stop
is more a sign the motor is worn out or the pickup has fallen off
A leak down test will tell you more than a comp test
With the hi km on it and the truck having a history of oil use
Think you need a motor just pull the oil fill cap and see how much blow by it has
I had a truck that comp tested excellent but smoked and went through oil like yours is
The top ring was good but second ring was broken and oil rings were seized

85chevy
05-24-2013, 08:44 PM
Pulling ur plugs and looking for signs of oil will help to but 4skin is right compression test probably won't turn up anything because ur burning so much oil that its creating compression

thrillbilly
05-24-2013, 08:59 PM
the rear passenger plug foils cause it gets so gunked up in crap. just that one tho the rest were fine.

pcv was gunked up but still rattled when u shake it. replaced it anyways. no difference.

it drives ok till its fully warmed up then it starts burnin more and detonating more.

im leanin towards thinkin it needs rings not just valve seals... sucks cause it runs so strong when its not burning oil lol.

how long can somethin run in this conditoin

and anyone know of any magnum 318 or 360s for sale?

thrillbilly
05-24-2013, 09:01 PM
probably cylinder 8 (rear passenger) rings are toast?

4skin
05-25-2013, 02:10 AM
Well it could run a long time if it was just rings the loss of oil press worries
Me more that's what will strand you
And the detonation is what's causing the crappy milage
Before you would hear it the computer pulls timing out
So it's running with the timing retarded a lot of the time
And the way it's going through oil how many times has it been ran low on oil

Fencepostxjay
05-25-2013, 03:30 AM
and what 4skin said mine went into limp mode and it drank the fuel ,
i had the same prob no leaks but slowly loosing oil but not burning , at least not enough to see , then one day playing at stave it started to smoke but went way , but now i was going through oil badly , i had to put oil in about every 3 days , mine turned out to be a common prob with the magnums with the bee hive intake manifold , the plenum gasket, was gone as seen in pics , my #8 was really bad , have a look into the intake and see if there is oil or if wet in intake , it may be same thing as mine , if gone and let to get worse it will suck the oil right out of the motor just about daily , it gets that bad , i drove mine for about a year before it gave up on me , just about a full rebuild , but yes check compression , my #8 was low but if going as far as rings do all other bearings too i didnt do lower bearings and i should have , i had to put a high flow pump in to make up for loose bearings i have them now but to find the time to roll them out
there is a kit to fix prob from hughes replaces the steel plate with aluminum so it wont expand and shrink at different rates
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?browse=category&level0=U21hbGwgQmxvY2sgRG9kZ2UgTWFnbnVtICgzLjkvNS4 yLzUuOSk=&partid=27091


http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e326/jaydsl/truck%20fix/578199_385730738135908_1975929640_n.jpg (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/jaydsl/media/truck%20fix/578199_385730738135908_1975929640_n.jpg.html)http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e326/jaydsl/truck%20fix/530177_385730768135905_839096912_n.jpg (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/jaydsl/media/truck%20fix/530177_385730768135905_839096912_n.jpg.html)http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e326/jaydsl/truck%20fix/548410_385730944802554_752262868_n.jpg (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/jaydsl/media/truck%20fix/548410_385730944802554_752262868_n.jpg.html)http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e326/jaydsl/truck%20fix/576787_385730828135899_920557961_n.jpg (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/jaydsl/media/truck%20fix/576787_385730828135899_920557961_n.jpg.html)http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e326/jaydsl/truck%20fix/536302_385730904802558_767973111_n.jpg (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/jaydsl/media/truck%20fix/536302_385730904802558_767973111_n.jpg.html)http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e326/jaydsl/truck%20fix/540383_385730888135893_1231844559_n.jpg (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/jaydsl/media/truck%20fix/540383_385730888135893_1231844559_n.jpg.html)http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e326/jaydsl/truck%20fix/575142_385730951469220_1873340877_n.jpg (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/jaydsl/media/truck%20fix/575142_385730951469220_1873340877_n.jpg.html)

hope this helps and not your prob lol
if you need any parts let me know i may have them , my spare motor is in truck so dont have hole motor but my old one is in pieces

thrillbilly
05-25-2013, 09:11 PM
hey xj thanks for the reply. the crazy thing is i've done the plenum gasket, i was told about it too so i did it, ran great for a bit but then drove to merrit for may long and it started burnin again. when i got home i looked into manifold from the TB and saw oil so i said FUCK a couple times then redid all the intake gaskets again... put it back together took my time and babied it, no issues, next day its back to puffin blue and detonating. havent looked in to see if its wet in there again, if it is i HIGHLY doubt its from the plenum, since its been done twice in 2 weeks. oil must be getting in there somewhere else?

and the oil pressure issue, ive come to the slight assumption its from crud and sludge being sucked up from the oil pan once the engine is hot? havent had a oil change in long time and its an old engine 276kms.

when i come to a stop and oil pressure drops to 0 in half a second. when i blip the throttle or resume driving it goes right back up to 275 on the gauge. and it shoots up n down not slowly falling / climbing.

i put in higher visc oil and seafoam for the carbon in there and its running pretty good right now.

might have to just baby it till i have time / $ for a full rebuild..?

id just hate for it to be a small issue thats fixable and tear the whole engine apart.

thrillbilly
05-25-2013, 09:12 PM
Well it could run a long time if it was just rings the loss of oil press worries
Me more that's what will strand you
And the detonation is what's causing the crappy milage
Before you would hear it the computer pulls timing out
So it's running with the timing retarded a lot of the time
And the way it's going through oil how many times has it been ran low on oil

everytime the check gauges light has come on, i top it up. so its never ran LOW low, just gone down to the "add" section of the dipstick.

Fencepostxjay
05-26-2013, 05:21 AM
That plenum is a bitch. If that tin pan isn't true. You will keep blowing gaskets. One way is to fix with the huges plenum fix And be done with it. But check compression. Too. I had to do mine twice. After fixing. I found 2 low cylinders so again. :(. That's why I did just about full rebuild. The bottom bearings didn't come in in time so I had to drive it. I still have them in a box lol. But my low oil pressure now is because of the bearings. At idle it dropped to nothing. When warm. I added lucus. To try and solve. But it did the same just at a higher temp. I had to put a high flow oil pump in to compansate for bearings. I know bad way. But no time and bearings weren't in yet. If you have done the plenum twice already. I would just about say again and Somthing is wrong with the beehive or the pan. I did mine ounce. And plenum is still good. And I drive it hard. That way I can justify the fuel Milage lol. Because with the intake and oil issues. The computer goes to limp mode and sucks gas An pinging. It will just get worse. Your pistons probly look like mine did. And that crud recked the rings. I think I did mine. Plenum, rings , valve seals , and gaskets. For around 250-300. If I remember right I have a beehive and tb. From my old motor if needed. Both my motors did the same thing Around the 260-280000 mark. I have te compression tester if needed Oh. And don't try to adjust timing or move the distributer for ping. Ih found out you can't. By turning the distributor. Alters the fuel timing. Not spark. I spent a lot of time on phone and computer to find same prob Fn dodge But i wouldnt give up my truck :). Its the same. 99 quad 318 4 spd , Lol. Was a 5 I lost 2nd gear 3 years ago still runs . I like the old motors 3 wires. Is all you need. No computer.

epic3
05-26-2013, 11:53 AM
Mines got a high rise single plane intake. Problem prevented.

Fencepostxjay
05-26-2013, 12:25 PM
Nice. My next motor. Was going to get some parts lol. Huges engines has some cool stuff for the magnum motor. But anything cool costs money. Lol

thrillbilly
05-27-2013, 07:49 PM
blahh ya i dont think its my plenum again i did it exactly to spec torque spec and brand new gasket its all done by the book..

i left work today and stepped on the skinny pedal and big puff of BLACK smoke.. happened again a minute later when i stepped on the gas.

so burning blue usually, but occasionally black apparently?

leads me to think rings fer sure?

Fencepostxjay
05-27-2013, 10:30 PM
Just be nice to it and build another motor for a swap later. [cheers]

85chevy
05-28-2013, 08:28 PM
Black is to rich fuel

Fencepostxjay
05-28-2013, 11:39 PM
probly in limp mode . when in limp mode they dump fuel in a worst way witch is probly not helping your carbon and pinging issue at one point i think mine hit 1$ per km of driving lol

steve604
05-29-2013, 01:26 AM
I worked with a kid that had a '99 Dakota 5.2 that did exactly the same thing yours is doing. he drove it for about 5 years like that. it got worse oil mileage than a Honda civic gets in fuel mileage. it would blow blue every time he started it and it would blow puffs of black every time he would step on it. fuel mileage was in big block territory. the Dakota had a 60 litre gas tank in it and could barely make it to merrit on a tank of gas. he would keep spare spark plugs in the glove compartment so he could easily change out the #8 plug everytime it would burn up which was about one every two months give or take.

I think he had a plenum problem that kept the CEL on which caused it to run rich to protect itself. I think cylinder #8 was so carboned up from so many years of too much oil and gas burning up in there that the compression on that cylinder was way too high which would explain the pinging and spark plug destruction.

the truck was eventually stolen and destroyed which was a blessing. he got $5500 from icbc which he put down on a new Tacoma.

Fencepostxjay
05-29-2013, 04:21 AM
thats exactly what 2 of my motors have done and it was caused by plenum then carbon in #8 and a couple others screwed the rings thats why i did a 80% rebuild should have done at least 10% more lol i can feel vibes at high rpm from bottom end bearings , loss of oil pressure , i would just about bet bottom bearings thats what mine did , i had to put high volume pump in for now till i do bottom bearings , ounce warm it would drop to 0 and check gauge light would come on every time i stopped at a light , i know all these symptoms because i just did 2 motors in the last 4 years the last one was last summer

your not going to track the mystery unless you do a compression test and a wet test , it will tell you so much thats how i came to my conclusion that i had to rip it apart and you can go buy another motor to just do a swap like i did but after 1 year it did it again , no way around it the 5.2 , 5.9 magnums are known for this prob and it starts from the plenum , then the rest follows you can change that plenum but if you drove for any time like i did your going to have to do rings and if you say your plenum is new and still good , then its probly ring time and the # 8 is a dead giveaway , do a search , i spend weeks researching to tell my self it cant be that but all symtoms lead to the one thing that started it , the plenum ,oil gets in and pools by #8 even after fixing if you drove for any amount of time you have a good chance rings are shot
my #8 tested at 70-80 psi it was hooped but i drove about 8 months like that computer was saying random miss fires aswell .

ok here is a couple things for specs on compression for the magnum

minimum psi, should be no less than 100 psi and it also says the psi reading on the cylinders should not be more than 40 psi apart from highest to lowest

If you get near 100 you are having problems. You don't want that. Add a teaspoon of oil in the low cylinder and see if that one goes up, if it does the rings have some wear. If not, it is most likely leakage between the valve and seat. Also, you might consider decarbing your engine if it never was done. It could bring down some of the higher numbers and make it run a little smoother. Just be sure to drop your exhaust before the cat. when decarbing.

from what i remember mine after rings was at 160 + and no more then 10% diff from numbers
in my driveway rebuild that the block never came out of the truck lol i did
the valve seals
laped the valves
rings
plenum gasket
oil pump
and all gaskets to get to that stage

and i dont think i spent more then $300 give or take

get the compression tested then you can rule some stuff out [cheers]

thrillbilly
05-29-2013, 04:58 PM
steve604 really those are my exact symptoms lol. even worse then mine. i made it from hope to merrit ripped around all weekend and back to hope, and that was 3/4 a tank and i needed to top up oil again.

if i start it on a cold day after sitting all night or all day at work, the idle is a bit rough and i feel definite hesitation and then it burns the oil/fuel then rockets off no more hesitation. just keeps building up and burning out as i drive it.

im gonna dry n wet compression test this weekend and get to the bottom of this! i can only HOPE its a valvetrain issue and carbon issue. i have used zmax and seafoam before so i dont know what else would get rid of carbon.

i think i should baby it as much as i can and just find a new motor to build.. it still has tonnes of power which is a shame to pull it all apart... if i stomp on it it will burn a bit then rocket forward and chirp gears and spin like crazy in the wet.

steve604, he never figured out the issue before it was stolen did he?

fencepostxj yeah your compltely right im gonna test this weekend. i may as well start on #8 and im gonna go ahead and bet anyone a shiny dollar its gonna be way off from the others.

about a month ago #8 plug went and when i changed it it was completely gunked up in oil and crud. my dad knew the original owner who i bought it from and it has always fowled just #8 for quite some time.




series of camping trips and friday night fires have been hell on the truck, its been beat its whole life but rev limiters spinnin tires and high speed sand runs i guess its finally on its way out :( poor girl.


fencepost, wanna build ANOTHER one for $$? hahha

myles455
05-29-2013, 06:20 PM
im scraping a 94 dakota 4x4.it has a 5.2 in it.it ran before i took the trans out.let me know if your interested. i dont want much for it.truck is headed for the crusher very soon

Fencepostxjay
05-29-2013, 06:58 PM
Definitely willing to help out. And I'm not sure but is the Dakota 5.2 a little different. ? I think if it is its just cosmetic stuff long block is the same I sea foamed mine before. But it made it worse lol. Carbon was holding it together lol [cheers]

myles455
05-29-2013, 07:17 PM
the dakota magnum is identical to the magnum in the rams and jeeps.

Fencepostxjay
05-29-2013, 11:58 PM
the dakota magnum is identical to the magnum in the rams and jeeps.
i thought some stuff is diff couse my wifes ex zj had a 5.2 and some stuff was in different places from my ram 5.2 due to cramming that beast into a zj lol or maybe its a model year thing only one way to find out lol start putting it in , i just found a ram with body damage running for 300$ but havent heard back from the guy yet at that price i would say its gone


ok looked around and yes they are different but in no way a bad way as i have the parts here , have a complete ram 5.2 in parts or can come off the old rams 5.2 , as far as i can read its the oil pan and pickup the rams are bigger but not for more oil dakota it smaller pan to fit with cross member just put ram pickup and pan on and will clear rams cross member all good now big question is how much is not much for motor ? lol

yoda604
05-30-2013, 10:07 AM
if you're blowing blue, your valve seals are toast. That is probably causing the bypass of oil as well and if your valve seals are toast, your valves probably have an excess of carbon buildup which would create lower compression.With nearly 300,000 on it, expect the rings to be worn as well. but the oil test in the cylinders will tell you that story. At absolute least count on getting the heads re-done, check your camshafts for clearances and do you timing chain.

Fencepostxjay
05-30-2013, 10:44 AM
Agreed. If your that far. It's open. Just do it. May cost a little more. But Cheeper then doing it twice. Lol. I did. Did my plenum got back together an found it still was not right. So tested. Yep bad rings. So off it came again to go deeper. Cheeper to do it while you have it open the first time

myles455
05-30-2013, 03:45 PM
200 bucks.complete with all accessories and ecm.and whatever else you might want off the truck.

thrillbilly
05-30-2013, 06:47 PM
just sucks cause its my daily driver.. might be a best idea to buy a $500 honda or ranger or something to rip in while i tear the dodge apart or get someone to build it.

i just welded up a couple exhaust leaks the other day and man does it ever sound good. driving along 1/3 throttle, roll into throttle it hesitates, burns blue, then rockets off with a screaming flowmaster.. i love this truck haha.

i guess i just drive it till it blows and get something built on the side. with this many kms and what i know has been done to this truck as far as abuse, i dont think its worth rebuilding this one.

myles where u located? is it still in the dakota

myles455
05-30-2013, 06:55 PM
I'm in surrey and the motor is just a couple of motor mount bolts away from coming out.I have a picker and everything.

Fencepostxjay
05-30-2013, 08:31 PM
Great price. Grab it. And rebuild. That's why I bought the jeep at first. So I can fix ram. If I clean my driveway and tent , I have tons of room to rebuild but I'm in Abby. I have a wack of spare motor parts too if needed . But I would buy the Dakota motor. Still clean Great for a rebuild. My block has been out side so it would need more cleaning Still sitting on stand Get motor slowly gather parts. Then rebuild , I need to get rid of some ram parts next week make room for jeep parts lol

If you don't buy the motor. Let me know. I will find the money :). Lol. Here I go again Trying to get more parts. Lol

myles455
05-30-2013, 09:01 PM
Its all there.

steve604
05-31-2013, 01:02 AM
steve604, he never figured out the issue before it was stolen did he?

he just kept on adding oil and changing out the #8 plug when needed. he drove it like that for a long time without actually breaking down which was pretty surprising. he was even able to run from the cops with it one time when he was drunk... they did catch him but it took 3 police cars to bring him down at gun point.

Fencepostxjay
05-31-2013, 08:23 AM
That looks like a tbi. Because we are. Mpi with the 99 rams

myles455
05-31-2013, 08:44 AM
Its mpi.all magnums are roiller cam and multi point fuel injection.

Fencepostxjay
05-31-2013, 10:04 AM
Ok. Got confused with the. Air cleaner.

thrillbilly
06-01-2013, 07:21 PM
i found a 99 magnum motor new gaskets all around completely resealed and painted up for $350. i dont know what im gonna do. in a huge dilemna. drive it as is till i can find a magnum to rebuild. buy a crate motor. canada engines motor. sell truck and get somethin else. i dont know.

did the math im getting 34.4L / 100km right now :(

thrillbilly
06-04-2013, 06:43 PM
well its for sale until i fix.

$1500 firm to anyone who is interested.
still daily driven just uses oil and fuel economy blows.

fox shocks leveling kit 16x8 black wheels 33" pro comp xtreme at stereo cd player with remote flowmaster super 40

front end rebuilt rear end rebuilt LSD new clutch new brakes

thrillbilly
06-07-2013, 06:00 PM
haha i cant sell it. too much love.

it doesnt ping anymore.. but it still blows blue and sometimes black. i dont know why my truck rolls coal hhahaha

myles455
06-07-2013, 07:43 PM
I still have that motor in the truck and I'm scrapping it this weekand.so if you want it let me know.

steve604
06-07-2013, 10:42 PM
haha i cant sell it. too much love.

it doesnt ping anymore.. but it still blows blue and sometimes black. i dont know why my truck rolls coal hhahaha

maybe it's pretending to be a diesel

thrillbilly
06-15-2013, 08:25 PM
haha ya a guy i work with has same truck but cummins and mine rolls more coal then his :S lolol.




SO the truck was stolen a few nights ago, i had no coverage for it, but it turned up today at 266 and 32nd in a mud pit apparently.. had to pay $300 for the tow, truck is 100% caked in mud. they left a smiley face drawn in the mud on passenger window. stole all my tools, pellet gun, stereo, dash trim, cds, even my cologn and my girls bodywash/handcream shit. all gone. was down 3.5L of oil too.

but, topped it up, runs just as good as it did before. my door was pried by drivers lock and ignition is there and key works but its all messed with.


if anyone knows of any dash trim peices that go around the dash for a 98-01 ram...

Fencepostxjay
06-17-2013, 10:05 PM
i think i have one :)

thrillbilly
06-24-2013, 08:07 PM
lookin for the dash trim bezel.
ignition
drivers door
passenger rear door
318 or 360

thats my list lol. let me know if u have the bezel! :)


started savin for either rebuild or a 360 well see what comes up first. loooove this truck too much to get rid ever.

Fencepostxjay
06-26-2013, 09:03 PM
I looked. Can't seem to find dash , it might have gone with parts truck. But I have another prob. I do have the rest you need but having hard time parting with , lol. This weekend I'm cleaning driveway and shop. I will decide as I move them around AGAIN. Lol