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SHITTY
11-05-2011, 12:28 PM
i don't think my alt. is putting out enough amps to keep my battery charged

does anybody know how many amps is needed for proper charging. my alt could be on the frits.

thinking of getting the bracket adapter to fit a acdelco gm alt. for more amps.

the problem is after running it, it sometimes doesn't start . it clicks until it goes.

but if i jump it with either my charger or a jumper cable it fires up every time.

thanks for any input.


stewart[cheers]

old codger
11-05-2011, 12:39 PM
Did you load test your Battery? How old is it? Are the Batt conections a
Nice Fuzzy green? How Snug are your Fan/Alt Belts?
Just a few more thoughts, before you rush out & buy a new altenator!.:)

geezer
11-05-2011, 12:58 PM
I second what old codger has to say, I'd check those things out first before spending money on an new alternator. A battery load tester is a good diagnostic tool to have in the shop.

geezer
11-05-2011, 01:07 PM
The way to tell if your alternator is not putting out proper amps is to test it with a multi-meter. the red probe to the positive terminal on the alternator and the black or negative probe onto a vehicle ground. If you don't have a multi-meter Canadian Tire will test it for you for free, at least they used to do it for free.

SHITTY
11-05-2011, 01:27 PM
the battery is newer no older then a year, all cables were replaced, its like the truck is just working off the alt.(not charging the battery enough) and when i turn the truck off the battery doesn't have enough juice to fire the starter up. starter just clicks. but with a jump fires right up.

thanks for the input so far guys[cheers]

atoyot
11-05-2011, 02:16 PM
Did you load test your Battery? How old is it? Are the Batt conections a
Nice Fuzzy green? How Snug are your Fan/Alt Belts?
Just a few more thoughts, before you rush out & buy a new altenator!.:)
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:)

old codger
11-05-2011, 02:30 PM
the battery is newer no older then a year, all cables were replaced, its like the truck is just working off the alt.(not charging the battery enough) and when i turn the truck off the battery doesn't have enough juice to fire the starter up. starter just clicks. but with a jump fires right up.

thanks for the input so far guys[cheers]

old codger
11-05-2011, 02:37 PM
How bright are your headlights, when the engine is runnuing and when its not? Some times batteries dont last a year, when did you last check the electrolight level or test it with a hydrometer for strength should be at least 1250,just another thought!

SHITTY
11-05-2011, 02:41 PM
How bright are your headlights, when the engine is runnuing and when its not? Some times batteries dont last a year, when did you last check the electrolight level or test it with a hydrometer for strength should be at least 1250,just another thought!



havn't done that yet. lights are bright. when i bought the battery new it fired up right away then went wheeling and when i turned it off it did the click. i think its draining from somewhere. i should take the battery in for exchange and get another one . still has warrenty i think. i will try different test and see what comes out of it . just got to get the tools needed. truck in not insured for road. so can't drive it to shops.

Toyquad
11-05-2011, 08:26 PM
starter contacts or loose connections.

SHITTY
11-05-2011, 10:36 PM
starter contacts or loose connections.



Nope. That's all tight

atoyot
11-05-2011, 10:39 PM
just load test the battery n youll have a good starting point.......

go from there.....
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harvester_sorrow
11-05-2011, 11:42 PM
Parasitic draw?

Toyquad
11-06-2011, 09:55 AM
i don't think my alt. is putting out enough amps to keep my battery charged

does anybody know how many amps is needed for proper charging. my alt could be on the frits.

thinking of getting the bracket adapter to fit a acdelco gm alt. for more amps.

the problem is after running it, it sometimes doesn't start . it clicks until it goes.

but if i jump it with either my charger or a jumper cable it fires up every time.

thanks for any input.


stewart[cheers]

sounds like starter contacts to me. if a battery doesnt have enough voltage to start the engine, its not going to all of a sudden find the voltage after a few tries.


starter contacts are inside the starter, and they corrode and wear out and cause problems like you are describing.

It can also be the signal wire to the starter is loose or bad connection. dont be fooled by hearing a click. you could just be hearing the starter relay click and not the starter...........................



but first place to start is the battery. To diagnose starting and charging systems you need two things, multi meter and an amp clamp. most ppl dont own an amp clamp, and you can get by with just a multi meter. if you dont have one, invest in one. they are very useful if you know how to use one.


with engine running put multi meter on battery, you should have 13.5-14.5 volts at the battery.

to test your battery, with engine off put multi meter on battery. anything less then 12.6 is a dead battery and needs a charge. That said, this next test will tell you more.....

put multi meter on battery and have someone try to start the engine, watch what the voltage drops to. if it drops below 9.6v, battery is no good or needs charge.

hope this helps

SHITTY
11-06-2011, 10:02 AM
sounds like starter contacts to me. if a battery doesnt have enough voltage to start the engine, its not going to all of a sudden find the voltage after a few tries.


starter contacts are inside the starter, and they corrode and wear out and cause problems like you are describing.

It can also be the signal wire to the starter is loose or bad connection. dont be fooled by hearing a click. you could just be hearing the starter relay click and not the starter...........................



but first place to start is the battery. To diagnose starting and charging systems you need two things, multi meter and an amp clamp. most ppl dont own an amp clamp, and you can get by with just a multi meter. if you dont have one, invest in one. they are very useful if you know how to use one.


with engine running put multi meter on battery, you should have 13.5-14.5 volts at the battery.

to test your battery, with engine off put multi meter on battery. anything less then 12.6 is a dead battery and needs a charge. That said, this next test will tell you more.....

put multi meter on battery and have someone try to start the engine, watch what the voltage drops to. if it drops below 9.6v, battery is no good or needs charge.

hope this helps



hey thanks for that . i will try . i was thinking it could be the points in the starter as well. going to take it out and check . Mr.Sparks is up the street from me . they should have what i need.

all info is very helpfull thanks guys

geezer
11-06-2011, 10:02 AM
12.6 volts is a dead battery? How come then my Mustang battery which is almost brand new reads 12.58 volts and fires that small block up like it is on steroids? My Dodge Ram 4x4 has a NEW battery and it holds 12.6 volts and starts that 318 up like nobodys' business? Also, my 2 RV batteries hold a constant charge of 12.6 volts while sitting in my motorhome and even on a cold morning fire up that beast with a vengeance? My point is 12.6 volts does not mean a dead battery. Even off the shelf at Lordco batteries are charged at 12.6 to 12.8 in my experience. Just giving my 2 cents worth on the topic.

Toyquad
11-06-2011, 03:23 PM
12.6 volts is a dead battery? How come then my Mustang battery which is almost brand new reads 12.58 volts and fires that small block up like it is on steroids? My Dodge Ram 4x4 has a NEW battery and it holds 12.6 volts and starts that 318 up like nobodys' business? Also, my 2 RV batteries hold a constant charge of 12.6 volts while sitting in my motorhome and even on a cold morning fire up that beast with a vengeance? My point is 12.6 volts does not mean a dead battery. Even off the shelf at Lordco batteries are charged at 12.6 to 12.8 in my experience. Just giving my 2 cents worth on the topic.


woops brain fart, it did get drunk out last night lol

12.6 is a fully charged battery. fully discharged in 11.7

geezer
11-06-2011, 03:50 PM
I know the feeling, last night was red wine and ribs night, a LOT of both!! LOL. Hope I didn't come across as being a prick to 'ya? Typed that when the hangover was in full swing....now the hair of the dog has bitten me again, feel much betta.

old codger
11-06-2011, 04:57 PM
havn't done that yet. lights are bright. when i bought the battery new it fired up right away then went wheeling and when i turned it off it did the click. i think its draining from somewhere. i should take the battery in for exchange and get another one . still has warrenty i think. i will try different test and see what comes out of it . just got to get the tools needed. truck in not insured for road. so can't drive it to shops.
What vehicle are we trying to Start??. Does it have a starter remote solenoid that the battery cable goes to before the starter? that could be faulty!, or does your starter have it built on top of the starter? the contacts
could be coroded in that, in that case you probably will have to remove the starter and get it repaired or exchanged, do you have any Buddies that could help you trouble shoot your problem from close at hand??.

SHITTY
11-06-2011, 07:19 PM
What vehicle are we trying to Start??. Does it have a starter remote solenoid that the battery cable goes to before the starter? that could be faulty!, or does your starter have it built on top of the starter? the contacts
could be coroded in that, in that case you probably will have to remove the starter and get it repaired or exchanged, do you have any Buddies that could help you trouble shoot your problem from close at hand??.


its a 1985 4runner has a 22r in it. going to change the contacts in starter. start with that .

85chevy
11-06-2011, 10:38 PM
Hit it the starter with a hammer when it does that means its time to replace the starter. And if after u change it u still have that problem check ur voltage regulator it most likely is draining ur battery. And easy way to check ur altenator is to just pull the negative cable when the vehicle is running if it stays running ur fine if it dies means there is no juice to run the electical

4skin
11-06-2011, 11:32 PM
how many times has it been in the mud or whater say up to frame rails
the runner would do this all the time
thankfully bosh alts and starters have a lifetime waranty
went through 5 in one month
starters and altenators aparently they dont like running muddy water

4skin
11-06-2011, 11:43 PM
tap with hammer not beat
and disconecting the batery with it running is a bad idea
good way to fry the ecu how do i know this
forgot to tighten ground on the jeep drove it out of shop
made it to end of driveway cable came of
now it dont run scanned it ecu not powering up

Hellboy
11-07-2011, 12:56 AM
tap with hammer not beat
and disconecting the batery with it running is a bad idea
good way to fry the ecu how do i know this
forgot to tighten ground on the jeep drove it out of shop
made it to end of driveway cable came of
now it dont run scanned it ecu not powering up

Pretty sure he meant pull the negative batt cable off at idle speeds while parked, i've used this method to test my trucks and various other people never had a Problem. Driving without a battery would seem like a different thing, maybe the cable that came off touched something it shouldnt have as well?


Tap starter with hammer is right and make sure its not the solonoid ur tapping

dirka dave
11-07-2011, 07:29 AM
If it's a stock 22r type alternator then out put should be around 35-40 amps.

3.0 l around 60-75 amps.

That's when it's full fielded. Most of the time they should be around 20-30 amps when running with a fully charged batt and a few accessories running.

Toyquad
11-07-2011, 09:44 AM
Hit it the starter with a hammer when it does that means its time to replace the starter. And if after u change it u still have that problem check ur voltage regulator it most likely is draining ur battery. And easy way to check ur altenator is to just pull the negative cable when the vehicle is running if it stays running ur fine if it dies means there is no juice to run the electical


internal regulator in the alt.

taking the battery cable off while running is a bad idea!
1) by doing that you the alt goes to full output. which isnt good for any length of time
2) if the alt is working, and the battery is being charged, the charging process omits a toxic and flammable gas, which can be ignited by the spark you'll get by hooking of unhooking the alt.

4skin
11-07-2011, 01:18 PM
[quote=BUUURP;1608856]Pretty sure he meant pull the negative batt cable off at idle speeds while parked, i've used this method to test my trucks and various other people never had a Problem. Driving without a battery would seem like a different thing, maybe the cable that came off touched something it shouldnt have as well?


Tap starter with hammer is right and make sure its not the solonoid ur tapping[/quote


youve been lucky and havent spiked the computer
or a 1500$$ dash cluster you should see the stuff you need
or supose to diconect on new ford trucks
to weld on them
this is fine test to do on cars that dont have a computer in them
but wonder how many people would even know what a set of points look like
as toyquad points out a battery produces hydrogen gas that is higly explosive look up hindenberg pretty good show of how flamable it is
chances of creating a spark while removing batt cables is pretty good

Hellboy
11-07-2011, 02:57 PM
[quote=BUUURP;1608856]Pretty sure he meant pull the negative batt cable off at idle speeds while parked, i've used this method to test my trucks and various other people never had a Problem. Driving without a battery would seem like a different thing, maybe the cable that came off touched something it shouldnt have as well?


Tap starter with hammer is right and make sure its not the solonoid ur tapping[/quote


youve been lucky and havent spiked the computer
or a 1500$$ dash cluster you should see the stuff you need
or supose to diconect on new ford trucks
to weld on them
this is fine test to do on cars that dont have a computer in them
but wonder how many people would even know what a set of points look like
as toyquad points out a battery produces hydrogen gas that is higly explosive look up hindenberg pretty good show of how flamable it is
chances of creating a spark while removing batt cables is pretty good



Hmm well I'll avoid doing that from now on, and I've never had a chance to do it on a newer vehicle as of yet so good thing. I just have voltage metres in my trucks now and if volts don't go up when i hit the gas i think that means alt isnt doing its thing.

SHITTY
11-07-2011, 05:56 PM
all the this info thanks guys. i want to try and get the amp out put on the amp. anyone in maple ridge with a meter? . or are they cheap to buy? i am going to fully charge the battery . and do then do the testing.

vajayjay
11-07-2011, 05:57 PM
I have a meter, It's probably just your starter seized from not moving:D

SHITTY
11-07-2011, 06:01 PM
I have a meter, It's probably just your starter seized from not moving:D


haha lol. your in pitt right?..

vajayjay
11-07-2011, 06:09 PM
I'm right off 207 now

Toyquad
11-07-2011, 07:31 PM
I Got one in mission. Not Keen on lending it out as its worth over 200. I can stop by and test it for you. Only Problam is I work afternoons and only free before 1pm.

SHITTY
11-07-2011, 07:32 PM
your just down the street from me now, i am north side dewdney 207a area


maybe one day i can grab the meter or if you want to come by and lend a hand .

just gotta charge up the battery. for testing

dirka dave
11-08-2011, 06:17 AM
I also have ways to test the strange electron flow. :D

epic3
11-08-2011, 01:39 PM
Fuck you guys check shit the hard way. Ask an electrical guy and electrical question.
Do you got a multimeter? If not get one it'll save you hundereds of hours of BS over your life and possibly thousands of dollars. Spend $80 bucks or more on it.
Now armed with your new multimeter set it to 20VDC or whatever setting it is has that is above 12 VDC.
Stab the neg lead into the neg battery CABLE
Stab the pos lead on the pos battery CABLE
Notice how I said CABLE not terminal.
Try cranking over and measure the voltage while doing so. If it drops off to almost nothing it is a bad connection or battery.
Wow that took 20 seconds and no hammer or wrenching.
Next
Put the multimeter leads on the battery CLAMPS and try again
If the voltage stays good then you have a bad connection from the CLAMPS to the CABLES.
If the voltage drops you have bad CLAMPS or BATTERY
Next Connect your multimeter leads to the battery TERMINALS and perform the same test.
If the voltage drops off then you have a bad BATTERY if its stays good then you have a BAD CONNECTION between the TERMINALS and CLAMPS.

If all the above checks good.
Set your wonderful new multimeter your favorite new tool that makes you so smart to the 100 OHMS setting or lower.
Connect one lead to the battery TERMINAL and the other to the ENGINE it should read very close to ZERO not I, I means infinite not 1ohm.
(Anything less than 5 OHMS is good)
If its bad replace or take apart and clean your engine battery ground cable and check again.
Next. Perform the same test but from the battery TERMINAL to the CHASSIS aiming for the same results (less then 5 ohms) and replace or clean as needed.
If all these basic very quick one beer tests check out ok then its time to move on.
Using your multimeter again set it the 20VDC setting climb under the truck (now its time to get a bit dirty) and connect one lead to the main POST on the STARTER MOTOR and the other on a good CHASSIS GROUND and check the VOLTAGE while attempting to crank.
If it falls off then you have a bad connection at the POST cus we already know its good at the BATTERY cus we tested that didn't we.
If its good then we have a bad STARTER.
And done! Diagnosed. No hammers no wrenches and only one beer in. You'll have that many more to enjoy now and revell in your electrical supremecy.

dirka dave
11-08-2011, 02:47 PM
Wow.

I just hook up my ammeter with my amp clamp with a carbon pile.

SHITTY
11-08-2011, 02:58 PM
Fuck you guys check shit the hard way. Ask an electrical guy and electrical question.
Do you got a multimeter? If not get one it'll save you hundereds of hours of BS over your life and possibly thousands of dollars. Spend $80 bucks or more on it.
Now armed with your new multimeter set it to 20VDC or whatever setting it is has that is above 12 VDC.
Stab the neg lead into the neg battery CABLE
Stab the pos lead on the pos battery CABLE
Notice how I said CABLE not terminal.
Try cranking over and measure the voltage while doing so. If it drops off to almost nothing it is a bad connection or battery.
Wow that took 20 seconds and no hammer or wrenching.
Next
Put the multimeter leads on the battery CLAMPS and try again
If the voltage stays good then you have a bad connection from the CLAMPS to the CABLES.
If the voltage drops you have bad CLAMPS or BATTERY
Next Connect your multimeter leads to the battery TERMINALS and perform the same test.
If the voltage drops off then you have a bad BATTERY if its stays good then you have a BAD CONNECTION between the TERMINALS and CLAMPS.

If all the above checks good.
Set your wonderful new multimeter your favorite new tool that makes you so smart to the 100 OHMS setting or lower.
Connect one lead to the battery TERMINAL and the other to the ENGINE it should read very close to ZERO not I, I means infinite not 1ohm.
(Anything less than 5 OHMS is good)
If its bad replace or take apart and clean your engine battery ground cable and check again.
Next. Perform the same test but from the battery TERMINAL to the CHASSIS aiming for the same results (less then 5 ohms) and replace or clean as needed.
If all these basic very quick one beer tests check out ok then its time to move on.
Using your multimeter again set it the 20VDC setting climb under the truck (now its time to get a bit dirty) and connect one lead to the main POST on the STARTER MOTOR and the other on a good CHASSIS GROUND and check the VOLTAGE while attempting to crank.
If it falls off then you have a bad connection at the POST cus we already know its good at the BATTERY cus we tested that didn't we.
If its good then we have a bad STARTER.
And done! Diagnosed. No hammers no wrenches and only one beer in. You'll have that many more to enjoy now and revell in your electrical supremecy.

thats perfect should post this up for everyone to view when they have this problem. good step by step wording thanks

Hellboy
11-08-2011, 03:07 PM
Fuck you guys check shit the hard way. Ask an electrical guy and electrical question.
Do you got a multimeter? If not get one it'll save you hundereds of hours of BS over your life and possibly thousands of dollars. Spend $80 bucks or more on it.
Now armed with your new multimeter set it to 20VDC or whatever setting it is has that is above 12 VDC.
Stab the neg lead into the neg battery CABLE
Stab the pos lead on the pos battery CABLE
Notice how I said CABLE not terminal.
Try cranking over and measure the voltage while doing so. If it drops off to almost nothing it is a bad connection or battery.
Wow that took 20 seconds and no hammer or wrenching.
Next
Put the multimeter leads on the battery CLAMPS and try again
If the voltage stays good then you have a bad connection from the CLAMPS to the CABLES.
If the voltage drops you have bad CLAMPS or BATTERY
Next Connect your multimeter leads to the battery TERMINALS and perform the same test.
If the voltage drops off then you have a bad BATTERY if its stays good then you have a BAD CONNECTION between the TERMINALS and CLAMPS.

If all the above checks good.
Set your wonderful new multimeter your favorite new tool that makes you so smart to the 100 OHMS setting or lower.
Connect one lead to the battery TERMINAL and the other to the ENGINE it should read very close to ZERO not I, I means infinite not 1ohm.
(Anything less than 5 OHMS is good)
If its bad replace or take apart and clean your engine battery ground cable and check again.
Next. Perform the same test but from the battery TERMINAL to the CHASSIS aiming for the same results (less then 5 ohms) and replace or clean as needed.
If all these basic very quick one beer tests check out ok then its time to move on.
Using your multimeter again set it the 20VDC setting climb under the truck (now its time to get a bit dirty) and connect one lead to the main POST on the STARTER MOTOR and the other on a good CHASSIS GROUND and check the VOLTAGE while attempting to crank.
If it falls off then you have a bad connection at the POST cus we already know its good at the BATTERY cus we tested that didn't we.
If its good then we have a bad STARTER.
And done! Diagnosed. No hammers no wrenches and only one beer in. You'll have that many more to enjoy now and revell in your electrical supremecy.


You forgot to say

"i'm phil and now your phil'd in"

Lol good instructions though dude

BleepinJeep
11-08-2011, 04:54 PM
Great answer....so why did it take you 3 pages to respond oh electrical god[f] :D

dirka dave
11-08-2011, 04:57 PM
Cutting and pasting takes time. :D

4skin
11-08-2011, 05:28 PM
may be good at electrical

BUT SUCKS AT KEEPPING A SCOUT RUNNING[f]

atoyot
11-08-2011, 06:28 PM
may be good at electrical

BUT SUCKS AT KEEPPING A SCOUT RUNNING[f]


oh by the way hows the JEEP runnin bruceskin??????:D
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.ZING~~~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

epic3
11-08-2011, 07:46 PM
may be good at electrical

BUT SUCKS AT KEEPPING A SCOUT RUNNING[f]

scout runs mint
wheel bearings and steering are its most common issue

epic3
11-08-2011, 07:48 PM
Wow.

I just hook up my ammeter with my amp clamp with a carbon pile.

Cus everyone has one of those or can afford one.
A multimeter is a must have in any tool box and much more affordable

atoyot
11-08-2011, 09:45 PM
i think doc used a multimeter to diagnose his flux capacitor failure
on the delorian.....:D
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4skin
11-08-2011, 11:54 PM
oh by the way hows the JEEP runnin bruceskin??????:D
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.ZING~~~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
its a jeep i didnt build it i beat itlol

dirka dave
11-09-2011, 06:14 AM
The other way is to plug in your snap on ethos scanner and read the voltages that way.
:D
(only good for 95' and up)
Said the heavy duty MECHANIC to the electrical guy.
:fighting0071:


[cheers] phil.


[drunk] spudspudspudspudspud !!!!!

epic3
11-09-2011, 11:31 AM
its ELECTRICAL guy

old codger
11-09-2011, 05:31 PM
We have 4 pages of comments/ notes/ suggestions, but is the VEHICLE
RUNNING yet? or have we all been wasteing time???.

SHITTY
11-09-2011, 09:41 PM
[quote=old codger;1609453]We have 4 pages of comments/ notes/ suggestions, but is the VEHICLE
RUNNING yet? or have we all been wasteing time???.[/qu


been busy. havn't had time. this friday will be working on it. battery is trickle charging want full battery for testing.