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Renegord
04-06-2011, 07:06 PM
So, I just thought I'd get an idea of what other people think about what the maximum angle a guy should run a 13 inch driveshaft at , without a CV. Any feedback would be appreciated.[cheers]

'Balmer
04-06-2011, 07:10 PM
Without a C/V your pinion angle must be within 2 degrees of your output shaft angle if you want it to run properly. That's exactly why I'm doing a cut n' turn to my C's...

Bent Black
04-06-2011, 09:37 PM
what size u joints?

4skin
04-06-2011, 11:07 PM
and remember
to check for bind at full droop

Renegord
04-07-2011, 07:07 PM
So , this is what I'm dealing with.

Dreded
04-07-2011, 07:55 PM
holy crap I thought my 18" was short lol
and it looks like you t-case output and diff input are at different angles so you will need a CV shaft not to mention you need one anyhow because at that length the full droop will bind with a single u-joint(almost is sitting still by the looks of it)

85chevy
04-07-2011, 09:38 PM
High Pinion would fix that lol cuz damn that is short

4skin
04-07-2011, 09:47 PM
damm i thought the one in my cj2a was short
dont know how you could fit a double cardan in there
you might need something like this
141110
141112

141111
search extreme angle drive shafts[cheers]

'Balmer
04-08-2011, 12:22 AM
You can get away with a double cardan if you can fit one. Your pinion should be pointed DIRECTLY at your T'case output ideally but I think you'll be alright if you can fit it. The true c/v that bruce refers to might be your best bet but I'm not sure about cost. There's no way you can run it with single U-joints though...

m j
04-08-2011, 04:46 AM
try it
I wouldnt run that or expect it to last long
you must be able to use something shorter in the drivetrain
toss the chaindrive case for a d300 or something

Renegord
04-08-2011, 07:10 AM
Thanks for all the feedback . that driveshaft is just a temp because my project budget is pretty badly depleted :( . it doesn't bind at regular ride height so I'm going to run it just to break in the motor , but I'll probably just keep it on the pavement until I figure out something else , and get a little more cash together. At this point I'm not sure whether to go with a shorter tranny/t-case combo or a pontenially expensive custom cv driveshaft , looks like I got more research to do.[cheers]

Renegord
04-08-2011, 07:57 AM
So while we're on the subject , in the interest of making this work for a little while , I could , although I don't want to , drop my tranny/t-case an inch , and throw some shims in under my spring perches. So the question is how far back is it safe to tilt the rear diff back , right now it's at 14 degrees with no shims , so if I put lets say 2 or 3 degrees worth of shims in and drop my output shaft an inch or so that should earn me a slightly better angle and at least a bit of suspention travel without binding . But then my rear diff pinion angle will be 16 to 17 degrees , I read somewhere that 11 or 12 was about as far as you should go , is this true?:confused0006:

'Balmer
04-08-2011, 02:08 PM
Honestly Gordo, you should be looking at a c/v in the front and keep your rear output shaft as close as possible to the same angle as your rear pinion. Your front diff should be shimmed to get the pinion pointing right at the front output shaft and you should be running a c/v on the t-case end.

Go talk to Pat at the machine shop about driveline angles. He'll get your head wrapped around the whole deal in a hurry.

I can stop by soon and discuss it with you too if you want... do it right, don't regret it.

Dreded
04-08-2011, 02:59 PM
best article I found to understand easily is here....
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/driveline/

m j
04-08-2011, 04:55 PM
rear axle angle is not an issue
the ring gear is in the oil and flings it everywhere

'Balmer
04-08-2011, 05:09 PM
That's not the point. You can always mod your dif cover to give you more oil capacity. The fact is, the more angle that is applied to a U-joint, the more likely it is to grenade. I know how Gord wheels and I know he's alone on the trails often. In my opinion it's critical for him to get decent driveline angles.

'Balmer
04-08-2011, 05:11 PM
Also he's running big power in this rig...

tchevy
04-08-2011, 09:01 PM
yep if you wheel and have power, that shaft is a 5amp fuse in a 15 amp circuit man lol[cheers]

4skin
04-08-2011, 09:49 PM
what are you running for drive train and whats it in
the bigest problem is space
youve pretty much got a slip yoke and ujoints
no room for a cv or cardan joint
cuold you move the rear end back
im guessing its a yj if you use a cheroke spring pack mounted backwards it moves diff back several inches
and a litle trimming would help

Renegord
04-12-2011, 08:28 AM
what are you running for drive train and whats it in
the bigest problem is space
youve pretty much got a slip yoke and ujoints
no room for a cv or cardan joint
cuold you move the rear end back
im guessing its a yj if you use a cheroke spring pack mounted backwards it moves diff back several inches
and a litle trimming would help
It is a YJ, and I like the idea of stretching the wheelbase a little , that sounds like an easy and fairly inexpensive way to do it . Would I go with 4.5 inch cherokee lift spings to match my 4.5 inch fronts , or will the numbers be different because of the non stock application? The other idea I'm kicking around right now is ditching the five speed and slapping a T-18 in it , that would buy me nearly 12 inches.[cheers]

Dreded
04-12-2011, 10:43 AM
It is a YJ, and I like the idea of stretching the wheelbase a little , that sounds like an easy and fairly inexpensive way to do it . Would I go with 4.5 inch cherokee lift spings to match my 4.5 inch fronts , or will the numbers be different because of the non stock application? The other idea I'm kicking around right now is ditching the five speed and slapping a T-18 in it , that would buy me nearly 12 inches.[cheers]


what motor you running?

m j
04-12-2011, 06:48 PM
keep the 5 speed and lose the chaindrive transfer case

Renegord
04-13-2011, 10:15 AM
I'm running a 331 stroker(bored, stroked 5.0L) with an M5OD and a borg warner T case out of a '90 f-150. The idea from the start was not to keep that tranny , I was thinkin' of just running it for one season and swapping in a ZF-5 . The T-case is only 15" long , how much shorter is a gear drive , I need more than just a couple inches , although if I do that and do the cherokee spring thing , that would probaby be enough. I was just thinking that I like the idea of a five speed but now that I've bombed around in it a little bit , I don't know if I "need" a five speed.:confused0006:

Renegord
04-13-2011, 10:22 AM
oooops

Dreded
04-13-2011, 11:01 AM
I'm running a 331 stroker(bored, stroked 5.0L) with an M5OD and a borg warner T case out of a '90 f-150. The idea from the start was not to keep that tranny , I was thinkin' of just running it for one season and swapping in a ZF-5 . The T-case is only 15" long , how much shorter is a gear drive , I need more than just a couple inches , although if I do that and do the cherokee spring thing , that would probaby be enough. I was just thinking that I like the idea of a five speed but now that I've bombed around in it a little bit , I don't know if I "need" a five speed.:confused0006:

I have a BroncoII with the same setup... the M50d is massive :p I am trying to source a Np435/np205 combo as thats MUCH shorter and bullet proof... plus it gives you a granny low 1st... also could do the Np205/Np203 Doubler mod in the future

FWIW: Used ZF-5's tend to have synchro issues

Renegord
04-13-2011, 12:14 PM
I have a BroncoII with the same setup... the M50d is massive :p I am trying to source a Np435/np205 combo as thats MUCH shorter and bullet proof... plus it gives you a granny low 1st... also could do the Np205/Np203 Doubler mod in the future

FWIW: Used ZF-5's tend to have synchro issues
I think I'll be doing something simalar , the combo I put in was an experiment that didn't work out as well as I had hoped :( . I might still run it with a couple of ajustments until I can source a new combo , I figure if I put the 2 inch T-case drop kit my lift came with back in , carve out my yokes a little bit , put some limiting straps on my rear diff , and ajust my pinion angle to a more desirable level , I should be able to get enough axle movement to at least be able to hit some trails soon . In the mean time I'm going to to be looking for a 205 and one of a couple different trannys .[cheers]