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View Full Version : 12 valve or 24 valve?


SHITTY
11-25-2010, 10:03 PM
which is a better motor?

just wondering may want to look into getting rid of the 04 ram hemi and getting a later model diesel

Moondog
11-25-2010, 10:17 PM
I have a 24 and love it others have the 12 and they love it the choice is yours but in the end you will be getting a Cummins and you will love it :D

4skin
11-25-2010, 10:18 PM
watch for early 24 valve with block casting 53 prone to cracking
98 t0 01

digger
11-25-2010, 10:31 PM
i have an 06 and love it

D-Ass
11-25-2010, 10:51 PM
12V U can make more power and a hell of a lot cheeper to do![36]

96_z71
11-25-2010, 10:53 PM
12 valves good for cheeaap power with the P7100 pump, 98 had the 215hp pump i think just before they went electronic with the 24 valve.

kootenaycat
11-25-2010, 11:08 PM
Both reliable and good on fuel, stock to stock the 12V can't touch the 24V and adding 100 hp to the 24V is as simple as a programmer for under $1000, don't think you can do that to a 12V for the same price. And like he said, watch for the casting no for those blocks prone to cracking.

digger
11-25-2010, 11:16 PM
my 24,pulling 11,ooo lbs still get up to 95 kms up the snow shed.nothing but stock

Moondog
11-25-2010, 11:29 PM
Both reliable and good on fuel, stock to stock the 12V can't touch the 24V and adding 100 hp to the 24V is as simple as a programmer for under $1000, don't think you can do that to a 12V for the same price. And like he said, watch for the casting no for those blocks prone to cracking.


Cold air and dual exhaust will also get you the same increase on the 24 and it costs around the same price:D

mus-Tard
11-25-2010, 11:37 PM
a twist of a screw on the injector pump on the 12v will open about 100 hp.

96_z71
11-26-2010, 12:03 AM
a twist of a screw on the injector pump on the 12v will open about 100 hp.

And blow black like a freight train [36], love seein that.

digger
11-26-2010, 12:06 AM
a twist of a screw on the injector pump on the 12v will open about 100 hp.



i know 2 guys that have turned that screw and wished they didnt,you cant do one thing without the other

T.O.
11-26-2010, 07:57 AM
a twist of a screw on the injector pump on the 12v will open about 100 hp.
If you were to run it like that you'd burn it up in meer Km's.[16]

mus-Tard
11-26-2010, 11:13 AM
so only twitst it half way

SHITTY
11-26-2010, 05:23 PM
thanks for the info. i am just looking at this moment. but i want out of the hemi. even when its parked i think i can hear the fuel sucking away.

ya i love power . i have nothing to pull yet but i love the sound they make with the air intake and turbo back exhaust.


which year did the 6 speed come out?

vajayjay
11-26-2010, 07:20 PM
Get the 6.7 it's not much better on fuel but the engine brake sounds cool:D

SHITTY
11-26-2010, 08:26 PM
Get the 6.7 it's not much better on fuel but the engine brake sounds cool:D


my work truck is the 5500 with the engine brake and it does sound kool

Deathtrap
11-27-2010, 04:05 PM
12V is easy to mod and build power, 0 rate fuel plate is free if your handy with a grinder or spend a little money and buy one, stronger govenor springs $150, delivery valves another 100-150$, 90hp injectors 90$each, add a 4" exaust and you got a powerhouse for around $1000-1300 and dont forget the KILLER dowel pin mod if it hasnt been done already. All mechanical no electrical.

24V can get power with a tuner, but a stock lift pump cant supply enough for much more than stock. VP44 injection pump prone to failure if fuel supply isnt enough, VP44's go for $1700+. You can avoid this buy going to an aftermarket lift pump ie: Airdog or FASS($500+). There is also 2 different injection pumps dodge offered, the SO and the HO. HO trucks had a higher hp and tq rating, not much though. SO pumps were more volume less pressure, HO was higher pressure lower volume. You can get what people call hybrid pumps which is parts of the SO combined with the HO, I have this in my 02 2500.
24V also has a bigger turbo than the 12V. The optional 6spd tanny is nice untill it needs a rebuild, the parts are no longer made for that NV-5600, so if you want a standard find one with the 5spd or save up to swap one in later on. Injectors are about the same price aswell.

kootenaycat
11-28-2010, 06:43 PM
12V is easy to mod and build power, 0 rate fuel plate is free if your handy with a grinder or spend a little money and buy one, stronger govenor springs $150, delivery valves another 100-150$, 90hp injectors 90$each, add a 4" exaust and you got a powerhouse for around $1000-1300 and dont forget the KILLER dowel pin mod if it hasnt been done already. All mechanical no electrical.

24V can get power with a tuner, but a stock lift pump cant supply enough for much more than stock. VP44 injection pump prone to failure if fuel supply isnt enough, VP44's go for $1700+. You can avoid this buy going to an aftermarket lift pump ie: Airdog or FASS($500+). There is also 2 different injection pumps dodge offered, the SO and the HO. HO trucks had a higher hp and tq rating, not much though. SO pumps were more volume less pressure, HO was higher pressure lower volume. You can get what people call hybrid pumps which is parts of the SO combined with the HO, I have this in my 02 2500.
24V also has a bigger turbo than the 12V. The optional 6spd tanny is nice untill it needs a rebuild, the parts are no longer made for that NV-5600, so if you want a standard find one with the 5spd or save up to swap one in later on. Injectors are about the same price aswell.

Thought the fuel pressure problem was only on the older 24V engines? Didn't they have an update/relocate fuel pump for that issue? When they went to the common rail design it eliminated that problem, no injection pump to deal with?

Deathtrap
11-28-2010, 08:04 PM
Thought the fuel pressure problem was only on the older 24V engines? Didn't they have an update/relocate fuel pump for that issue? When they went to the common rail design it eliminated that problem, no injection pump to deal with?


The common rail is a completly different injection setup, all 24V engines from 98.5 to 2002 use the rotory injection pump the VP44. There is a mod the dealership does, once the factory electric lift pump that is mounted on the side of the engine craps out the new one is and intank unit that replaces the whole intank sending unit.

4skin
11-28-2010, 09:19 PM
and if the oem mod is done and you want to do upgrades like a bigger lift pump your fucked
have to get a buy pass kit
also anyone with one of these trucks should instal a low fuel preshure warning kit the lift pump quits then it wrecks the injector pump

Deathtrap
11-28-2010, 09:28 PM
and if the oem mod is done and you want to do upgrades like a bigger lift pump your fucked
have to get a buy pass kit
also anyone with one of these trucks should instal a low fuel preshure warning kit the lift pump quits then it wrecks the injector pump

Fuel preesure gauge is definatly a good idea, I believe with the mod there is actually a auxilery outlet on the new sending unit that isnt used and goes to the bottom of the tank, I cant remember off hand though. And you can get from air dog or fass a fuel tube you can use, comes with the gromet and instructions so you dont have to mess with the factory sending unit to much.

78f150
11-29-2010, 09:05 PM
I have had both a 94 12 Valve with the cam plate ground and now have an 06 that is stock I like the 06 way better as far as 12 or 24Valve doesn't really matter i would pay more attention to what fuel system it has
the 24 valves with the VP44 had transfer pump problems and when then go you don't really notice it and it starves the injection pump and then it fails.
All are good truck but if your gonna buy a 24valve with a vp44 I would just be prepared to upgrade the lift pump right away. Also with the exception of the 07.5 and newer the older auto trannys were junk.

78f150
11-29-2010, 09:06 PM
Oh yeah and the 6.7 are pigs on fuel

tnairn
11-29-2010, 10:00 PM
if you get a 24 valve it is easy chip power, but you will not be able to work on it as easily your self, 12 valve is easy to work on, all mechanical, i love my 95 12 valve 345xxx on it pulls hard, in the spring it getting a ht3b to add some more towing power hopefully make like 40-50psi and around 300 rwhp

dirka dave
11-30-2010, 06:23 AM
If it was me, I'd go with the 24 valve.


better engine. can produce more power. bottom line.

Parts are becomming cheaper, quieter a bit more electronics but not a smogger.


This is my opinion, I am planning on getting a Dodge soon myself and thats the one I will be getting.


Either or, get what you want.

78f150
11-30-2010, 10:58 PM
If it was me, I'd go with the 24 valve.


better engine. can produce more power. bottom line.

Parts are becomming cheaper, quieter a bit more electronics but not a smogger.


This is my opinion, I am planning on getting a Dodge soon myself and thats the one I will be getting.


Either or, get what you want.

Same engine just different fuel system and head and yes in a common rail way better with the vp44?

mus-Tard
12-01-2010, 11:29 AM
my work truck is the 5500 with the engine brake and it does sound kool
so they gave you a dodge?
l thought you just got a new work truck?

tiro
01-14-2011, 04:01 AM
no it will only cost you 15 min take the fuel plate out and move the afc forward and your golden. 12 valve will go for ever the pumps on the 24 will seize if it doesnt get fuel. mine has 820oookm and i havent done nothing to it

rmiller026
01-14-2011, 10:14 AM
Word 12 valves are the most simple thing and most reliable fuck modding it all out put a cold air and eghaust on it it's all you need just make it breath better it's a truck not a race car and I think the 6 sp started in 94 or 96 so u can still get em with a 12 valver but myself I'd go first gen then u have a king pin 60

dirka dave
01-14-2011, 11:14 AM
I have been building cummins heads 24v for 2 weeks now at work, they seem to take quite the abuse.... the intake seats are tough and the valves seem to be lasting quite well.

I replace the exhaust seats and re cut them.

theborges
01-14-2011, 11:29 PM
I would go with a 24V with the common fuel rail enjection. its what i have and it is great on fuel and lots of power without any mods. the 6.7 only has just a little more power but chews alot more fuel and has alot more smog crap on it that is a pain. only good thing with the 6.7 is a factory exhaust brake. not worth every other thing that can go wrong with it over the 5.9's

fullsizebronco
02-06-2011, 01:56 AM
lol i wanted to put a cummins in my ford for the longest time i have to agree any cummins is a good one lol

Bigsexy
02-06-2011, 12:19 PM
my 24,pulling 11,ooo lbs still get up to 95 kms up the snow shed.nothing but stock

badass [36] i remember the only time i drove my truck up country.. i was beein passed by semi's at the snowshed... 2nd gear foot couldnt get any further into the floorbords lol

Crack
02-08-2011, 01:51 PM
I've owned 3 dodge diesel....
2002 24v with some where around 400-450hp
2006 with 500-550hp
and right now I have a 94 12v with around 250hp


If you're planning to leave the truck mostly stock... go with a 24v.
If you want to make lots of power... go with a 12v.
And if you want a truck that has better brakes and head lights get something 03 or newer.

I like to 24v for the ease of simply using to programmer to make more power, but the vp44 is a killer when it wears out. Even if you have an after market system like Airdog or FASS it will still eventually fail. I only had to do mine once. My buddy is just about to do his a second time.
The 06.... nothing bad to say about that truck except that blowing up a motor is reallllly expensive. lol
So far I'm really happy with the 12v. I've got a few things done to it and it's fast and powerfull. It doesn't like starting up on really cold mornings, but plugging it in helps.

4skin
02-08-2011, 11:25 PM
crack whats done to yours iv got a 95 one ton 5 speed
its stock other than a bd 4inch exaust and brake
and would like a bit more power but not lose fuel mileage
think its 195 horse

Nutbar
02-08-2011, 11:45 PM
Bruce, do a fuel plate and 3000rpm gov spring kit, read up on adjusting the AFC and fuel screw, and pull the silencer ring out of the inlet of the turbo, those will liven it up quite a bit.

4skin
02-08-2011, 11:56 PM
waiting for buddy to go back to work to get fuel plate and gov springs
was thinking of moving plate full forward and afc to
oh ive been reading
my other litle project is eating up my spare time rite now

Nutbar
02-08-2011, 11:59 PM
Oh yeah and biggest thing get yourself a Pyro guage if ya don't already have one

4skin
02-09-2011, 12:02 AM
Oh yeah and biggest thing get yourself a Pyro guage if ya don't already have one
second thing i did boost and pyro[36]
didnt wana play without it

Crack
02-13-2011, 04:18 PM
crack whats done to yours iv got a 95 one ton 5 speed
its stock other than a bd 4inch exaust and brake
and would like a bit more power but not lose fuel mileage
think its 195 horse



99 ram sport headlights with HID kit
leveling kit

Super B Special Turbo
3 piece exhaust manifold
ARP head studs
#5 fuel plate
40hp injectors
3000 gov spring kit
"KDP" has been done
Intake
BD boot kit
Colbalt trans/pyro/boost piller pod
4" stainless exaust
HD SFI flexplate

I've got a #10 plate in there right now. I need to do more stuff to the tranny before I turn it up. Don't feel like blowing it up just yet.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/Easy124/25307_10150175903450543_599620542_1.jpg

4skin
02-14-2011, 01:29 AM
nice did hid and new head lites
kdp is done
boost gage
pyro
leveling kit
and some blingy weld forged wheels

mudball
12-20-2011, 09:59 AM
i love my 12 valve

78bronco
12-20-2011, 08:20 PM
12 valve all the way gets way better mpg then the 24V and cheaper for go fast goodies

78bronco
12-20-2011, 08:21 PM
Oh yeah and biggest thing get yourself a Pyro guage if ya don't already have one

whys that ???? i see 2000+ degrees all the time i kinda dont wanna see what its doing

Ginger Snaps
12-22-2011, 06:41 PM
6.0L POWERSTROKE :)

T-donk
12-23-2011, 11:46 AM
i gots a 93 12v its fuckin awsome.....

78bronco
12-28-2011, 11:26 PM
i have a 91 cummins motor done up in a truck and a 95 12 valve with 500k on it and the 95 hasnt had a good life and she purrs like a kitten all day long

dirka dave
12-29-2011, 06:42 AM
6.0L POWERSTROKE :)

Really ???

Worse engine ever made.

Ginger Snaps
12-29-2011, 11:34 AM
ACTUALLY THE 6.4 powerstroke is the worst engine made by ford...

and the 6.7 cummins are shit aswell overfuel and engines go bye bye same as the 6.4 so really all new diesels are shit excpet for the 6.7 powerstroke from what iv seen... and why is the 6.0 powerstoke one of the best selling diesels.... just saying see more of them then cummins or duramax rolling around

crimsen
12-29-2011, 11:54 AM
id like to see the data behind the 6.0 PS being the best selling. i think you will find that it would only be possible if you consider the fact every truck sold with a 6.0 from factory required 3 or 4 motors after they all blew.

dirka dave
12-29-2011, 11:58 AM
I'd take a cummins over a ford any day.

I6 easy to work on. Proven engine around the world.

Ford not so much.

Just my opinion. And I build cummins all day at work.

Ginger Snaps
12-29-2011, 01:42 PM
id like to see the data behind the 6.0 PS being the best selling. i think you will find that it would only be possible if you consider the fact every truck sold with a 6.0 from factory required 3 or 4 motors after they all blew.

223K ON MY 6.0 original engine and headgaskets..

just saying...

Ginger Snaps
12-29-2011, 01:43 PM
I'd take a cummins over a ford any day.

I6 easy to work on. Proven engine around the world.

Ford not so much.

Just my opinion. And I build cummins all day at work.

your talking about a bus compared to light duty pickup truck...

All im saying is i see more ford diesels on the road then anything else

Chody
12-29-2011, 02:09 PM
your talking about a bus compared to light duty pickup truck...

All im saying is i see more ford diesels on the road then anything else
fords are cheaper

dirka dave
12-29-2011, 02:24 PM
I see a lot more fords with their flashers on, parked on the side of the road.
:eek: :hitler: :D

Ginger Snaps
12-29-2011, 05:13 PM
funny every time i go to kelowna some ass hat in a dodge likes to blow passed me but at the top there always pulled over at the top smoking good ol 6.0 keeps on trucking..

harvester_sorrow
12-29-2011, 05:51 PM
V10:D

crimsen
12-29-2011, 06:32 PM
223K ON MY 6.0 original engine and headgaskets..

just saying...

your talking about a bus compared to light duty pickup truck...

All im saying is i see more ford diesels on the road then anything else


ah, so because your truck is a ford with a 6.0, and you have had no issues with it in 223k, that means all fords must be 6.0 and have absolutely no issues.

i guess the ford 7.3 never existed and the ford mechanics that would never own a 6.0 because they work on them all day long are making stuff up.


and your 6.0 has 223k no issues. my 5.9 12v has 400k with no issues, has been tuned and tows 6000 lbs up the connector and coq and doesn't have temp problems. can also go from 60k-110k going up the brenda mine hill and have no issue. i guess that means my trucks dad can and did beat up your trucks dad?:dontknow:

Punk in Drublic
12-29-2011, 06:47 PM
drama

Ginger Snaps
12-29-2011, 06:51 PM
im not sayin 6.0 dont have a problem i work at a diesel shop where there specialty is 6.0 and i work at a ford dealership iv seen just as many dodges come in with blown engines and other electrical issues.. with maintence any vehicle should last

we can argue till where blue in the face you keep your dodge ill keep my ford

have a good night

dirka dave
12-29-2011, 07:37 PM
I don't even have a dodge, yet.


I drive a jap Toyota.

F150HULK
12-29-2011, 07:41 PM
im not sayin 6.0 dont have a problem i work at a diesel shop where there specialty is 6.0 and i work at a ford dealership iv seen just as many dodges come in with blown engines and other electrical issues.. with maintence any vehicle should last

we can argue till where blue in the face you keep your dodge ill keep my ford

have a good night


i can vouch for that.

fuck the 24 valve me and i know of 3 others that have had to rebuild before 150mi

78bronco
12-29-2011, 08:10 PM
the only way to make a 3rd gen 24 valve good is to p-pump!! it the 6.7 suck ass unless you take all the emessions bs off and reprograme the comp and do oil changes every 5000km's they suck tho sadly i wouldnt own a 6.7L cummins and i would buy a duramax long befor i bought a ford diesel

Ginger Snaps
12-30-2011, 09:59 AM
yeah and i saw what it cost you Rod....:eek:

4skin
12-31-2011, 07:23 PM
well il stick with my ppumped 12 valve
a computer to run something that doesnt need power to run once its started
seems like looking for problems be it ford dodge or gm

Nutbar
01-01-2012, 01:28 PM
My P pumped 12 valve has 430,000 kms still runs like a top, pulls 120 - 130 km/h up the Coq snow shed and the hill outta Ktown with my CJ in tow and has never even hinted that it wants to climb past 90*C temp. I'll stick with my Cummins thanks.