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'Balmer
10-21-2009, 12:57 PM
Okay, It's time to ditch the damn IFS! I picked up a Wagoneer D44 set up to run in an XJ (all brakets, tabs and spring cups welded on already). It's got Warn Cro-mo shafts (brand new in box), Yukon super joints (brand new in box), an Aussie locker and high steer. It needs hub and rotors as well as gears (4:10's in it now - will be going to 5:13's or 5:38's). Since the axle is set-up for it, I'm thinking of building some XJ-style long-arms for it. 2" x .250 wall DOM, a coupla johnny joints a few bushings, bungs, etc. and voila, not to mention frame brakets. I'm going to be doing a long-arm version of the stock rear suspension for this year. I'll probably do a double triangulated 4-link next year, but I'm looking for quick and cheap rear suspension for now. I'll be adding a bunch of links to fab ideas soon plus more pics, just want to get the thread started.

One very bent idler arm. The shaft is bent about 12 - 15 deg, allowing the center link to strike the frame.
116870

Here you can see the contact between the C/L and the Frame a bit better "groovy".
116871

IFS still in place
116872

Torsion bar ready for removal
116873

Cross member ready for removal
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Damage to shock tube from over cranked T-bars and abuse
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Rock damage to trans pan
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UCA removed
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LCA removed
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New parts!
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'Balmer
10-21-2009, 02:24 PM
Here's what I'm thinking of doing for the rear.

http://nissannut.com/projects/long_arm/

thrillbilly
10-21-2009, 03:13 PM
very cool!

Reeseman
10-21-2009, 06:54 PM
when will it be ready to wheel?

'Balmer
10-21-2009, 10:23 PM
I'm shooting for early spring.

Happypants
10-21-2009, 10:56 PM
right on buddy! geter done!!! what size tires? 35`s?

'Balmer
10-21-2009, 11:21 PM
Ya, maybe 36" we'll see, I know the axles can take it (once I do cro-mo shafts on the rear) so that's more likely. I've cleared the stock IFS bracketry from the frame on the passenger side but it's dark and the pics look really shitty so I'll take some in the daylight and post 'em tomorrow.

Hey Nick, your long-arms only have johnny joints at the frame end right? only bushings at the axle and between the upper amd lower links?

B
10-21-2009, 11:33 PM
Ya, maybe 36" we'll see, I know the axles can take it (once I do cro-mo shafts on the rear) so that's more likely. I've cleared the stock IFS bracketry from the frame on the passenger side but it's dark and the pics look really shitty so I'll take some in the daylight and post 'em tomorrow.

Hey Nick, your long-arms only have johnny joints at the frame end right? only bushings at the axle and between the upper amd lower links?


ask him how many bushings he has replaced and how long they last dude i see it every day 2 more johnys are cheap insurance to never have to worry about or fuck with em again

as i told ya on the phone they use em to keep the ride smoother and so they dont transmit as much noise up into the cab ... not because they are better ;) for a purpose built rig it's not even close [cheers]

those

http://www.rubiconexpress.com/BuilderParts/Product.aspx?folder=BPb&part=RE3765

vs
http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/Product.aspx?id=2630
plus jam nut and tube insert


hope that helps :p

'Balmer
10-21-2009, 11:46 PM
No, I get it man, there's no comparison between a johnny joint and a simple (leaf spring style) bushing! Plus I totally appreciate your advice AND I trust your word. I'm just thinking that if it's a radius arm set up... and bare with me here, it hooks up to the axle in a way that only permits vertical movement of the bushings so johnny joints on the lower arm would be fightinng the brakets on the upper arm, no? I'm not sure if I'm explaining myself very well? I just don't want to put in an expensive part that maybe unnessasary or worse, counter-productive. I'm more or less a newb so forgive me if I'm talking out of my ass, but I'm not a dumb shit, I learn real quick like, so like I said, bare with me, never any offence intended and all good advice appreciated!

B
10-22-2009, 12:00 AM
it's all good bro it's gonna be a cool build ... i just hate seeing things have to be done twice ... [5]

Apathy
10-22-2009, 03:52 AM
its good to see your using the xj stuff instead of the ford radius arms.

If i was to change 1 thing, thats it.

btw, cheat your front axle forward as much as you can.
there is litte roof between the axe and the cab with 36's

'Balmer
10-22-2009, 10:48 AM
I was very tempted to use the ford arms to save a bunch of money but I think I'll be a lot happier with the XJ style arm in the long run. The biggest deciding factor was the fact that the axle is already set up for an XJ and it just seems goofy to spend hours grinding off good mounts to add lower quality arms. Time to bite the bullet and spend a bit more again... itsn't that always the way? I'm hoping to save at least a couple hun by building the arms myself though. I'd like to get the dimensions from the Ruby express arms...Nick, wanna do some measuring???

'Balmer
10-22-2009, 10:51 AM
btw, cheat your front axle forward as much as you can.
there is litte roof between the axe and the cab with 36's

Will do. 2" is about all you can get away with 'cause of the rad though right?

Apathy
10-22-2009, 01:31 PM
you cannot move your steering box forward, its up against the rad.

space between your trac bar and pitman arm is the problem.

Happypants
10-22-2009, 05:12 PM
next time im over at darins ill do some measureing, what you need? the arm lengths?

'Balmer
10-23-2009, 12:05 PM
ya, the upper and lower link lengths would be great. Thanks Nick!

BushWhackXJ
10-26-2009, 07:17 PM
About using johnny joints/ Re all around... ( I have Xj longarm radius arm style)

You say
"I'm just thinking that if it's a radius arm set up... and bare with me here, it hooks up to the axle in a way that only permits vertical movement of the bushings so johnny joints on the lower arm would be fightinng the brakets on the upper arm, no? I'm not sure if I'm explaining myself very well? I just don't want to put in an expensive part that maybe unnessasary or worse, counter-productive"

You are definately bringing up a good point. I know from experience, and I'm sure NoNeckNick probably has as well. With bushings worn out on the lower axle ends, I can grab my upper link and move it side to side pivoting the lower.

If flexy rotational joints were used in all locations in a longarm radius arm setup where four links are used, the whole setup would flop from side to side. while driving in any condition. (i've been there with blown out bushings)

hope that helps, and here's a pic of my setup on the jeep which i assume is what you had in mind??[cheers]

'Balmer
10-27-2009, 01:09 PM
Cool man, ya that makes me feel better. Sometimes it's hard wrapping your head around something that isn't sitting in front of you, let alone explain it! That's exactly the issue I was refering to. Great pic of the bushing ends. Are those the Rutsy's long arms?

BushWhackXJ
11-02-2009, 10:16 PM
yeah, rusty's long arms.
glad you understood it. In a setup such as that one, rubber/poly/ some sort of solid mount has to be used at the axle ends. nothing that pivots. good luck with the build man. should turn out sweet.

Happypants
11-02-2009, 11:18 PM
johnny joints and re flex joints dont pivot side to side though and there more solid than a rubber/poly bushing cause they dont wear out as fast, lots of guys run them on there buggies and i dont see any problems with there axles shifting side to side, besides isnt that what a track bar is for? to eliminate side to side axle movement? the johnny joints or re joints would last longer and be stronger cause they wont break, given that you keep them greased regularly

BushWhackXJ
11-05-2009, 09:04 PM
it's hard to explain in words what you mean, so maybe a pic. will make sense.

I wouldn't be worried about the axle moving from side to side, because as it was said... thats what a trackbar is for.

But i would be worried about the longarm/radius arm setup twisting around and always wanting to be upside down. Johhny joints at all points except at axle mount points
--either way i hope this helps make some sense. It's kinda tricky to explain--

Zibi
11-05-2009, 10:01 PM
hurry this shit up! I saw a tan 4door SASed parked on Kingsway in Vancouver today, his fenders weren't all chopped up though so I knew it couldn't be yours.

B
11-05-2009, 10:06 PM
im tired but ill try to explain what i feel you are missing in the equation we are discussing

as the radius arm suspension trys to flex one side is trying to twist down and the other side is trying to twist up the flexed or lower side of said flex axle is trying to push the axle forwards and the high side or stuffed side is trying to rotate backwards as this happens the uppers being inboarded will leverage tons of force on the lowers.

What happens is the lower bushings at the axle end take all the abuse this causes them to wear very fast and you can feel the axle moving back and forth in the mounts when breaking or accelerating a joint like the currie will not only allow the side to side pivot

"there is no down side becuase as you stated the track bar keeps the diff located"

but because of the centerball design will not slop forward and back we see this everyday and have had many peeps remove the soft or leaf style bushing from the ends of there arms to be replaced with the superflex or currie ends and go years without having to replace them were for most dudes that wheel replace them more than one a year so figure on replacing 20 $ bushings 3 times a year and the curries save you money by year 2 plus work better ...


i could be wrong but i believe balmer is building this to "get after it " not cruise fsr's so then this is even more critical .

[cheers]

Apathy
11-06-2009, 05:54 AM
bushings suck... you don't know how often i change mine.

I go through about 2-3 sets a year on the radius arms.

m j
11-06-2009, 06:27 AM
wouldnt it be caster change you are refering too?
so is there no way to just put a 3rd link to the frame and toss the whole radius arm junk in the bush?

'Balmer
11-06-2009, 12:03 PM
wouldnt it be caster change you are refering too?
so is there no way to just put a 3rd link to the frame and toss the whole radius arm junk in the bush?

Ya, you can do a 3-link, a few guys have. It's a far better way to go in my opinion and I would do exactly that except the axle I'm using is set up for an XJ so I would need to remove the upper link mounts from the axle and replace them with a single mount for the top (3rd) link. I just want to use my axle as is. I think that the XJ set up will work better than the Ford one, but not as good as a 3-link. It's as hard-core as I can possibly afford to go at this point so that's where it's at.

'Balmer
11-06-2009, 12:17 PM
im tired but ill try to explain what i feel you are missing in the equation we are discussing

as the radius arm suspension trys to flex one side is trying to twist down and the other side is trying to twist up the flexed or lower side of said flex axle is trying to push the axle forwards and the high side or stuffed side is trying to rotate backwards as this happens the uppers being inboarded will leverage tons of force on the lowers.

What happens is the lower bushings at the axle end take all the abuse this causes them to wear very fast and you can feel the axle moving back and forth in the mounts when breaking or accelerating a joint like the currie will not only allow the side to side pivot

"there is no down side becuase as you stated the track bar keeps the diff located"

but because of the centerball design will not slop forward and back we see this everyday and have had many peeps remove the soft or leaf style bushing from the ends of there arms to be replaced with the superflex or currie ends and go years without having to replace them were for most dudes that wheel replace them more than one a year so figure on replacing 20 $ bushings 3 times a year and the curries save you money by year 2 plus work better ...


i could be wrong but i believe balmer is building this to "get after it " not cruise fsr's so then this is even more critical .

[cheers]

Yep, "gettin' after it" is the plan alright, no pussy wheelin' here! Bushwack XJ and I seem to be on the same wavelength when it comes to the proposed issues of using a Johnny joint/ Currie Joint at the axle end of the lower links. It took some doing, but I think I'm starting to see your point B. I figured the track bar would keep everything located laterally but I feared that the rotational movement allowed by the Johnny joints would be a big downside. Again, I'm not toally clear on this but after hearing both you and Jeremy supporting this idea AND having heard that guys have already done this mod to radius arms, it would seem silly not to follow the advice.

So Johnnys/Curries on BOTH ends of the lower arms. The uppers are all good as is though right?

'Balmer
11-12-2009, 02:20 PM
Picking up my D44 housing, gears and Aussie Locker on Friday! Anyone need 4:10 gears for a D44 (I'm going 5:14's)?

'Balmer
11-14-2009, 02:13 PM
Her's some pics of the rest of my axle and steering stuff. Now I just need my 5:14's, axle bearings, hubs, calipers and rotors to complete the D44!


117866

117867

117868

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117871

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Apathy
11-14-2009, 02:49 PM
hey buddy hate to burst your bubble, but that mount on top of your diffis going ot go through your oil pan.

bette take some more measurements.

my diff (nothing on top) hits the 1" cross member i have protecting my oil pan.

Happypants
11-14-2009, 03:06 PM
that looks like rubicon or BTF xj bracket kit, gaurenteed that your drivers side axle truss is going to break in half, seen it happen 3 times already cause its just 1/8" flat stock that they stuck in a brake and bent up, there not strong at all, also your prolly going to have to either move your upper drivers side mount a bit or move the axle forward a few inches to keep it from taking out your oil pan, or you can chance it and make sure that you minimize your up travel but............

'Balmer
11-14-2009, 06:26 PM
that looks like rubicon or BTF xj bracket kit, gaurenteed that your drivers side axle truss is going to break in half, seen it happen 3 times already cause its just 1/8" flat stock that they stuck in a brake and bent up, there not strong at all, also your prolly going to have to either move your upper drivers side mount a bit or move the axle forward a few inches to keep it from taking out your oil pan, or you can chance it and make sure that you minimize your up travel but............


Thanks for the heads up Nick. My axle is going forward two inches and I'm going to look into an oil pan that is shaped differently (without the goofy 10 inch drop section). There's a bunch of different Nissans that use basically the same engine so I think I should be able to find a pan that sits higher.
I'll talk to B about the bracket kit, his guys welded it on. I'm getting a mig around X-Mas time so if it needs gusseting I'll be all set. Exactly where is the weak point you're referring to?

'Balmer
11-14-2009, 06:31 PM
hey buddy hate to burst your bubble, but that mount on top of your diffis going ot go through your oil pan.

bette take some more measurements.

my diff (nothing on top) hits the 1" cross member i have protecting my oil pan.

There's got to be a pan that sits higher no? From a Z or something? What about going to a dry sump set-up to run a super tight tolerance oil pan?

Apathy
11-14-2009, 07:39 PM
the one you have is best. its not hte low hanging sump thats a problem. that will just clear the hump.

any others will hang lower throughout.

and as far as pushign your axle forward 2" good luck. the problem is your pitman arm- pan hard bar.
and youcan't push your box forward because its already against the rad.

Apathy
11-14-2009, 07:40 PM
if your set on getting a new oil pan.
get one from a 2wd v6 hardbody.

you'll need the pickup as well.

'Balmer
11-15-2009, 01:08 AM
Well, I've got to figure something out... I don't want to "retrofit" this axle with Ford arms after all. It's get the oilpan higher or run longer bumpstops and have less uptravel and/or a higher C.O.G. - I'd like to avoid that.

4Lo
11-15-2009, 02:42 AM
Anyone need 4:10 gears for a D44 (I'm going 5:14's)?


if they are for the high pinion axle then yes I am interested.

Apathy
11-15-2009, 09:10 AM
balmer.
i wouls sugest getting the axle under it and setting it at ride height your goign to be about 24" from bottom of frame to ground.

thats with 36's.

'Balmer
11-15-2009, 12:36 PM
if they are for the high pinion axle then yes I am interested.

Nah, sorry man, my axle is the standard Waggy low pinion.

'Balmer
11-15-2009, 12:38 PM
balmer.
i wouls sugest getting the axle under it and setting it at ride height your goign to be about 24" from bottom of frame to ground.

thats with 36's.

Will do! I'll have to get the truck itself at bit higher first and clean the IFS brackets off the frame on the driver's side. I'll have it hanging in place by mid-week. I'm working today, otherwise I'd do it now.

'Balmer
11-26-2009, 02:47 PM
So after being sick with the flu for awhile, I finally got around to cutting out the IFS brackets on the driver's side. Now to grind everything smooth and hang the axle by some straps to size this whole deal up.
oh yeah

118362

118363

118364

118365

118366

Apathy
11-26-2009, 03:07 PM
git-r-done bud... looking good.

But its still not a two door..lol

kamloopsyota
11-26-2009, 04:54 PM
right on man, cant wait to dig into mine.

Happypants
11-26-2009, 09:22 PM
done yet.... i am..for now......:D:D:D:D:D

'Balmer
11-27-2009, 10:22 AM
More grinding today after work followed by axle hanging (if I can find blocks big enough to get the truck high enough). I was thinking that if guys are running 3-link fronts on pathys then there must be hope for my set up. I was looking at a couple of the 3-links and they have a top link mount on the diff as well. It seems to sit back on the diff housing about 2" further than mine and is about 1" shorter but still, it's there and the suspension works great by all accounts. I really hope I dont have to change my plans around too much more... I just wanna get this thing done!

Apathy
11-27-2009, 10:38 AM
More grinding today after work followed by axle hanging (if I can find blocks big enough to get the truck high enough). I was thinking that if guys are running 3-link fronts on pathys then there must be hope for my set up. I was looking at a couple of the 3-links and they have a top link mount on the diff as well. It seems to sit back on the diff housing about 2" further than mine and is about 1" shorter but still, it's there and the suspension works great by all accounts. I really hope I dont have to change my plans around too much more... I just wanna get this thing done!

move your lower links outboard more. drop them about .5-1" below the axle.
Put your upper link next to the diff, but keep it below the top of the diff.

This will give you about 7" of seperation. That will be OK for your setup.

'Balmer
11-27-2009, 11:05 AM
Hey Jeremy, do me a favor and check out this link: http://nissannut.com/projects/SAS_3link/

Since I'm fabbing my own links and You're saying I'm going to have to relocate my axle bracketry anyway, I wonder if this is actually an easier and more viable way to go???

Apathy
11-27-2009, 01:13 PM
well,
He has done a few things. His pumpkin offset seams wierd.. way over on teh drivers side.
which has given him clearance between the frame rail and engine for the upper link.
In addtion, i don't like the position of his track bar, it goes over the top of the differential, essentially eliminatingany additional up travel that he may have gained.

I wonder what the exact specs on that front end are.

I would not weld direclty to the top of hte diff as he did, unless you are an expert and know exactly what you are doing.

Personally..
I would run 2 lower links, and 1 upper between the engine and the frame.
Keepin the track bar in front of the diff, not over the top.

B
11-27-2009, 01:34 PM
not to go against what pathy's telling ya [he's got some skills] but before id cut all the stuff off the diff more so the lowers arm diff mounts id tack my upper frame mounts on and cycle your suspension first perfect is great but there's a lot of really capible vehicals with out perfect suspensions that do really well and make it back from a day of trail run's with out carnage ..

just my 2c because i know how overwhelming it can get quickly ....

[cheers]



B ...

Apathy
11-27-2009, 01:39 PM
not to go against what pathy's telling ya [he's got some skills] but before id cut all the stuff off the diff more so the lowers arm diff mounts id tack my upper frame mounts on and cycle your suspension first perfect is great but there's a lot of really capible vehicals with out perfect suspensions that do really well and make it back from a day of trail run's with out carnage ..

just my 2c because i know how overwhelming it can get quickly ....

[cheers]



B ...

agreed. but first thing he needs to do is get that axle under there, and he'll see the issues with the oil pan and diff.

as far as not perfect suspension and getting to and from..

Look at my front suspension, never breaks, never gives me issus, (execpt torn bushings) and is completely redneck and shouldn't work as well as it does.

B
11-27-2009, 01:43 PM
agreed. but first thing he needs to do is get that axle under there, and he'll see the issues with the oil pan and diff.

as far as not perfect suspension and getting to and from..

Look at my front suspension, never breaks, never gives me issus, (execpt torn bushings) and is completely redneck and shouldn't work as well as it does.


hell we all know you drive the shit out of that thing and yep it works better than it should ;)


i think it's the loose nut behind the wheel :D

'Balmer
11-27-2009, 02:46 PM
not to go against what pathy's telling ya [he's got some skills] but before id cut all the stuff off the diff more so the lowers arm diff mounts id tack my upper frame mounts on and cycle your suspension first perfect is great but there's a lot of really capible vehicals with out perfect suspensions that do really well and make it back from a day of trail run's with out carnage ..

just my 2c because i know how overwhelming it can get quickly ....

[cheers]



B ...

Indeed. I'm going to do some grinding now, stay posted. If I do go with the 3-link, I'd love to try to keep the lower arm brakets where they are on the axle and just try to add a top mount. Having said that, the less modding the better!

'Balmer
11-27-2009, 02:50 PM
well,
He has done a few things. His pumpkin offset seams wierd.. way over on teh drivers side.
which has given him clearance between the frame rail and engine for the upper link.
In addtion, i don't like the position of his track bar, it goes over the top of the differential, essentially eliminatingany additional up travel that he may have gained.

I wonder what the exact specs on that front end are.

I would not weld direclty to the top of hte diff as he did, unless you are an expert and know exactly what you are doing.

Personally..
I would run 2 lower links, and 1 upper between the engine and the frame.
Keepin the track bar in front of the diff, not over the top.


Ya, the track bar location kinda tripped me out too. I would likely use a 3-link mount from ballistic or poly rather than doing the frame mods that he did to mount the top link to the frame. I'm no expert at welding and, no I wouldn't attempt welding to the cast section.

'Balmer
11-29-2009, 05:54 PM
118623

118624

Finished the cutting and grinding today... whew! The axle is hanging by straps but the truck is way too low ( bottom of frame is at about 18" from the ground - should be 24") but the axle is sitting about where it will with 36's mounted. It looks to me like I've got a pretty clear shot for the articulation of both upper mounts without hitting the oil pan. The pics are shitty, I'll take some more in the light tomorrow, plus I'll have the truck at proper ride hieght. I'm starting to seriously consider this whole 3-link thing - Barry (Nissannut) has done several of these setups and they seem to work really well. He tells me all I'd have to do as far as axle housing mods is remove the upper right mount and build a different truss that allows me to move the upper left link back 1" and down 1/2". Opinions???

118625

118626

118627

118628

118629

118630

118631

118632

'Balmer
11-29-2009, 06:00 PM
[quote=Pathy;1464726]well,
He has done a few things. His pumpkin offset seams wierd.. way over on the drivers side.
which has given him clearance between the frame rail and engine for the upper link.
quote]


Looking at how my housing sits under the truck, I think I have the same dimensions... my pumpkin seems way over to the driver's side also. After taking a good look underneath, it seems there's lots of room for that 3rd link just how Barry (Nissannut) does it. I'm still tripped out by the track bar going right over the axle rather than in front of it. I'll have to talk to him about that. He's a new member on FIBC, but I know he's been having some issues getting on to the site... maybe we'll see him respond here???

Happypants
11-29-2009, 08:04 PM
hey, enough of the computer shit, hurry up and get it done,
























hey......................:D



























done yet?























looks good buddy!!!

'Balmer
11-30-2009, 12:40 PM
Hey, you've got help with yours!!! It's getting there. I'm not going to get a whole lot more done till after x-mas when I can get a bit more cash together for frame mounts, joints and tubing. Oh ya, and a WELDER! Nice to have the cuting and grinding done for the most part though.

NissanNut.com
11-30-2009, 03:26 PM
You can move the track bar forward. But it will be tight. I found it easier to move the upper link mount back and have the track bar centered on the axle. Just made my 4th upper link mount today.

http://nissannut.com/projects/SAS_3link/links/link_mount_tackeds.jpg

This is my wd21. The other 2 are similar.

Apathy
11-30-2009, 03:41 PM
see that little space between the pitman arm and coil bucket.. thats where my track bar sits.

'Balmer
11-30-2009, 07:24 PM
I'd like to try to squeeze my track bar in where Pathy is indicating and leave my top mount as is if possible. My only worry is interferance between that mount and the oil pan, etc. I guess realistically, I need to save up again and get a few brackets and stuff, tack them in place and start cycling some suspension. If only money was no object...

B
11-30-2009, 07:54 PM
I'd like to try to squeeze my track bar in where Pathy is indicating and leave my top mount as is if possible. My only worry is interferance between that mount and the oil pan, etc. I guess realistically, I need to save up again and get a few brackets and stuff, tack them in place and start cycling some suspension. If only money was no object...



eating's over rated when you want to wheel ... ;)


track bars don't have to be straight either if it allows you to leave your upper mount to bend it slightly as long as it's done properly with good material ...

[cheers]

Apathy
12-01-2009, 05:52 AM
You may find that the high steer is actually too high.

by the time you get your drang link in there and your pan hard, your going to be up against the oil pan before you compress the suspension.

'Balmer
12-01-2009, 09:15 AM
Ya, I figured that... I'm trading Knuckles with Renegord... he's got a regular D30 - those are the same knuckles as a 44 right?

Apathy
12-01-2009, 01:37 PM
Ya, I figured that... I'm trading Knuckles with Renegord... he's got a regular D30 - those are the same knuckles as a 44 right?

you don't need to change them. Just put your drag link down where your tie rod is.. as in this pic

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f138/87pathy/DSCF0405.jpg

'Balmer
12-04-2009, 02:03 PM
Okay, cool. That makes things much easier! Hey, I noticed that my tie rod mount on one knuckle is higher than the other and as a result, my tie rod sits on an angle. Is this normal? If not can it be corrected by attaching the rod to the top of one knuckle mount and the bottom of the other? I assume I have to get some kind of special pin or spacer or something to run both the tie rod and the drag link off the same knuckle as in your pic?

Apathy
12-04-2009, 03:29 PM
Okay, cool. That makes things much easier! Hey, I noticed that my tie rod mount on one knuckle is higher than the other and as a result, my tie rod sits on an angle. Is this normal? If not can it be corrected by attaching the rod to the top of one knuckle mount and the bottom of the other? I assume I have to get some kind of special pin or spacer or something to run both the tie rod and the drag link off the same knuckle as in your pic?

the tie rod uses standard hi strength, 3/4" Heim joint.

the drag link in the picture is not the one i run, I run an extreme angle Heim joint. i can send you the part number and dwg if you like.

as for your tie rod, being at an angle.. can you get a picture of that, it doesn't seem right.

'Balmer
12-20-2009, 07:54 PM
That part # and other info. on steering stuff would be great, thanks!

The tie rod is only 1'2" higher on the driver's side so it's not that easy to see in the front view of the truck. I took a couple of pics near the knuckles to show you what I mean:

120501

Passenger side
120502

Driver's side
120503

I haven't checked to make sure that my knuckes are both set to the same caster angle, I'm picking up an angle finder asap, so I'll check that soon. All the welding on this axle was done at Jeep Thrills though, so I can't imagine they're uneven. Any other reason the tie rod would be off like this? Is it a big deal?

I removed the front drive shaft today along withe the exhaust Y pipes to make room for the top link. The passenger's side Y pipe will need to be modded to allow for drive shaft travel and the trans. cross member will need similar treatment for the same reason.
120504

120505

I have a very shallow pinion angle as is, not sure if I'm gonna have to cut and turn my C's and move all of my mounts? I sure hope NOT!
120506

Approx. length for my new drive shaft (ride height)
120507

Approx. length for my top link (Link mount will be replaced with standard mount for JJ) May wind up inboad by about 1" and back about 2".
120508


It's really time for a welder[36]

Apathy
12-21-2009, 06:04 AM
i don't understand why your ie rod is like that.
is it different hiem joints at either end?
is there a spacer on one of them?

something isn't right.

Set your castor angle and run a CV. for your D shaft.

Lieutenant Johnson
12-21-2009, 11:32 AM
looks wild bud!!

good luck with the swap, see ya on the road!

'Balmer
01-07-2010, 03:27 PM
Picking up a Lincoln 180HD Mig on the 15th! Hooray, time to start burning on some brackets... after I order 'em through B.

'Balmer
01-20-2010, 11:37 AM
[38] Got my welder! I haven't taken any pics, but I've done a bunch of practice beads and joints and played around with voltage and wire speeds. This seems to be all the welder I'll need, I'm so happy to finally be able to move on with this progect! Now that I've got the D44 and my welder and other fabbing tools, I'm over the worst of the expenses. The build should pick up speed now! Just need to get a gas bottle and a good mask and I'm pretty much ready to go. Anyone know how long co2 tanks last? I've got an old one kicking around, but I think the date on it is '99.
The welder I got is a Lincoln 180HD - they retail at Crappy Tire for $779.99, I think they're on sale for $599.99 right now, but I got mine from a private sale in Vancouver for $465.00 BRAND NEW, still in the box. The guy can get more and has a reasonable story about where he gets them. Seems like a straight shooter to me, I'm very impressed wit the machine as well as how he did business. If anyone wants one of these, here's his ad, name's Michael.
http://www.buysell.com/root/detail/BC/Welding_Equipment_Services/223/73583468/LINCOLN_ELECTRIC_WELD_PAK_180HD_230_V.aspx?gok=Wel ding+Equipment+Services

Explorer guy418
01-20-2010, 03:14 PM
o yea that is all the welded you will need...

vajayjay
01-20-2010, 03:19 PM
Right on


Now get to work, been alot of talk so far


We'll test it out soon[36]

'Balmer
01-24-2010, 12:53 PM
i don't understand why your ie rod is like that.
is it different hiem joints at either end?
is there a spacer on one of them?

Hiem joints seem the same, no spacers...

something isn't right.

I've pulled my knuckles off now and I'll be replacing the ball joints so I'll re-check everything after that - hopefully that will solve the problem.

Set your castor angle and run a CV. for your D shaft.

With my coil mounts sitting at 0 degrees, my knuckles are at 5 degrees caster which I think is acceptable, but my pinion angle is only 6 degrees rather than the 16-28 degrees that is common on the Nissan 3-link SAS. I've read that the max working angle for a double cardan d-shaft is 30 degrees. Is this the angle at the double cardan itself or the combined angle of both the double cardan and the standard u-joint at the other end of the d-shaft (overall d-shaft angle)? I dropped the pumpkin side of my axle and where I think it will sit at full droop will make the overall d-shaft angle approx. 30 degrees.

Apathy
01-24-2010, 01:00 PM
id take your caster to like 3 deg man. other than that.. looking good

'Balmer
02-10-2010, 02:27 PM
Finally time to get some brackets and steel next week! I can't wait to get some mounts and stuff on there. I've been debating what springs to use... Here's the choices so far:

Jeff's Bronco Graveyard
5-5.5" lift early Bronco coils, 190lb/in spring rate, 23.5" free length, Part# 23210

Rusty's off-road
8.5-9" lift XJ coils, 180lb/in spring rate, 23.5" free length, Part# RC-CS850-XJ

Wild Horses off-road
5.5" lift early bronco coils, dual spring rate: 1st-236lb/in, 2nd-375lb/in, 21.5" free length

Rusty's are the most reasonably priced and since they're close in spring rate, I'm thinking they may be a better choice than the one's from Jeff's Bronco Graveyard. I'm very curious about the dual rate springs though - Pathy, are these what you use? If so, have you noticed any sag over time? Anyone else have any opinions on which of these would work best?

Apathy
02-10-2010, 05:13 PM
Finally time to get some brackets and steel next week! I can't wait to get some mounts and stuff on there. I've been debating what springs to use... Here's the choices so far:

Jeff's Bronco Graveyard
5-5.5" lift early Bronco coils, 190lb/in spring rate, 23.5" free length, Part# 23210

Rusty's off-road
8.5-9" lift XJ coils, 180lb/in spring rate, 23.5" free length, Part# RC-CS850-XJ

Wild Horses off-road
5.5" lift early bronco coils, dual spring rate: 1st-236lb/in, 2nd-375lb/in, 21.5" free length

Rusty's are the most reasonably priced and since they're close in spring rate, I'm thinking they may be a better choice than the one's from Jeff's Bronco Graveyard. I'm very curious about the dual rate springs though - Pathy, are these what you use? If so, have you noticed any sag over time? Anyone else have any opinions on which of these would work best?

get the wild horse ones, i have run the duel rate and the linear rate, and the linear rate had very bad unloading caractaritics.
If you really want the linear rate ones, i can giv eyou a good price on broco grave yard 5.5" lift with winch.

'Balmer
02-21-2010, 10:08 PM
Finally got something done on the 'Finder other than deconstruction!!! In order to run the new SAS I need to lift the rear to match so...

123018

123019

123020

123021

123022

123023

I removed the lower rear link munt and moved it 11" forward.
I cut the top link in half and sleeved it with 1.5"X1.0" DOM and and used it as my new lower link.
Top: New lower link
Bottom: Old lower link
123024

123025

Link bracket gets mounted 11" forward of old location.
123026
123027
123029
123029
123030
123032
123033

The old bottom link will be used as the new top link. I'll be mounting it to a new crossmember that I'll be welding in a few inches forward of the old one, pics of that to come shortly.

It's soooo nice to finally be adding something to the truck after spending so long removing shit![36]

Happypants
02-21-2010, 10:29 PM
Cool shit man!

Renegord
02-22-2010, 03:51 PM
That's awesome man, it's good to see it coming together [cheers] .

4skin
02-25-2010, 10:34 PM
more picktures done any more???

'Balmer
02-26-2010, 01:16 AM
I'll be finishing the rear links and cross member on sunday. Pics to follow...

'Balmer
02-26-2010, 12:28 PM
Going to pick up the rest of the steel I need to finish the rear suspension!!!
Also picking up a ton of DOM to make a set of sliders for Renegord's YJ... I'll make a new thread once they're done so if anyone wants a set they can see how they look and I'll firm up a price too. Hooray for fabrication!

theborges
02-26-2010, 10:58 PM
its looking good balmer. nice to see you getting stuff done. I havent gotten really anything done on mine since you were here helping me with mine

xtremeyj
02-28-2010, 10:02 PM
its looking good balmer. nice to see you getting stuff done. I havent gotten really anything done on mine since you were here helping me with mine

dude your alive, havent heard from ya in ages

'Balmer
03-03-2010, 11:27 PM
its looking good balmer. nice to see you getting stuff done. I havent gotten really anything done on mine since you were here helping me with mine

Thanks Bryan. What's up with the slow progress?:dontknow:

'Balmer
03-03-2010, 11:39 PM
Continuing with the long arm 5-link rear...
I finished my crossmember to which my top links are mounted. The x-member itself is 2"x3" 3/16" wall and the link mounts are made from 3"x5" 3/16" wall. I cut two 3" sections of 3x5 tube and drilled a 9/16" hole in the center, then I cut off one of the 3" walls and cut a 45 deg to finish the mounts. I'll be welding it in on Friday.
After that I just have to wait until I can afford coils and shocks before I can raise my axle-side trac bar mount and adjust the length of the trac bar to suit the new ride height. Then all my efforts will be directed at the front end. I've got some front end parts waiting for me so, on with the progress! Damn if only money was no object...
:cool:

123815

123816

123817

123818

'Balmer
03-03-2010, 11:43 PM
Oh ya, I also finished modifying the old lower link mount on the driver's side and got it welded on too. The frame end is held in place for the picture, by a long eye bolt 'cause I have to ream the mounts out to fit my new 9/16" bolts (the stock ones are 14mm - a tiny bit smaller).

123819

123820

123821

123822

ROBO
03-04-2010, 07:49 AM
nice build so far!! love too see it in action!!.. good work dude!! one question .. hto .. from earlyer pics.. were can one find a drag link like that one? same style i need for my 44....

theborges
03-04-2010, 08:00 AM
Thanks Bryan. What's up with the slow progress?:dontknow:


called life, have a kid about to come any time now and got my dodge

'Balmer
03-04-2010, 10:42 AM
called life, have a kid about to come any time now and got my dodge
Ahh, life...

'Balmer
03-04-2010, 10:51 AM
nice build so far!! love too see it in action!!.. good work dude!! one question .. hto .. from earlyer pics.. were can one find a drag link like that one? same style i need for my 44....

Thanks man! I'm pretty sure I've got another drag link just like the one in the pics. It may have hiem joints on each end rather than one hiem and one 1-ton TRE like the link im using. If you're interested I can dig it out and take some pics and measurements for ya:dontknow: .

'Balmer
03-12-2010, 11:54 AM
Hooray! The x-member is in and it fits almost perfectly (I could have angled my upper link mounts in by a degree or two more). Suspension cycles smoothly. The upper links may hit the stock x-member at full stuff. If so, I'll notch it out rather than removing it completetly to retain some extra strength. As it is, it seems like I should get away with simply removing the old mounts from the stock x-member.


Passenger side - fully compressed. You can see the new x-member and the mount with a really long bolt that I need to trim.
124147

Driver's side at ride hieght - the other side is stuffed, hence the angle on the axle...
124148

Better view of the x-member.
124149

Here's the top links crossed up from articulation - no binding...
124150

Driver's side stuffed (I have about 2 more inches, but these are 33"s and I'm going to 36"s so this WILL be full stuff.
124151

Passenger side at ride hieght (or within an inch or so at least).
124152

I wish I could see the full droop on this side - should be pretty gnarly...
124153

So, the long arm rear is now complete with the exception of raising my axle side trac bar mount and sleeving my track bar to make it a bit longer to accomodate the extra travel. Oh ya, I also need to save up for coils and shocks... but the vast majority of the work is done. Now on to the front! My coil buckets are welded up and ready for install this weekend. My trac bar mounts will likely be added to both the frame and the D44 too. Pics of that to come...

4skin
03-12-2010, 11:59 AM
[36] [36] [36] looks great man
keep buildin[36] [36]

theborges
03-12-2010, 03:29 PM
very nice daren, keep up the good work

TealTJ98
03-12-2010, 04:04 PM
very nice keep it up looks sweet

Happypants
03-12-2010, 06:37 PM
Hurry up!!! Only got 3 months till summer

'Balmer
03-24-2010, 01:47 AM
Got the D44 housing all cleaned up and the first coat of paint is on...

124593

124594

124595

124596

124597

124598

124599

124600

124601

theborges
03-24-2010, 10:57 PM
looking very good man

regulate34
03-24-2010, 11:41 PM
sweet for sure man
coming along great

'Balmer
03-24-2010, 11:59 PM
Thanks guys! Coil buckets and trac bar brackets are getting mounted in the next week or so. I'll be buying coils and shocks to finish the rear after that. Then it's just some brackets, joints and tubing to finish the front suspension. After that there's steering to figure out and and crossmembers/exhaust to be modified... oh ya, plus I have to build the axle itself. Good grief, will this ever be done???

aarong
03-25-2010, 06:23 PM
looks awesome

Happypants
03-25-2010, 06:41 PM
Thanks guys! Coil buckets and trac bar brackets are getting mounted in the next week or so. I'll be buying coils and shocks to finish the rear after that. Then it's just some brackets, joints and tubing to finish the front suspension. After that there's steering to figure out and and crossmembers/exhaust to be modified... oh ya, plus I have to build the axle itself. Good grief, will this ever be done???

It's a never ending cycle dude, but it only gets better;)

Reeseman
03-31-2010, 07:42 PM
wow vary nice. When do you think you will have it done?

'Balmer
04-06-2010, 01:28 PM
wow vary nice. When do you think you will have it done?

Hopin' for late summer at this point Reese. It's taking longer than I wanted but it's coming along well so I'm happy to be patient. I'm eager to get out camping with you guys again though!

[36]

Happypants
04-06-2010, 04:05 PM
Any progress??

'Balmer
04-06-2010, 08:07 PM
Nah, nothing for awhile. I've got a trac bar bracket I could weld in but I've been busy building a dirt bike for a friend's kid and seting up my hot tub at the river...

I'll be ordering rear coils n' shocks in the next week so that part will be DONE at least by the end of the month. The rest isn't really that bad in terms of fabbing... it's just $$$ for gears, bearings, blah, blah, you know...

daver123
04-21-2010, 11:31 PM
I'm planning to start a SAS on my pathfinder. this weekend i'm pulling her off the road, IFS and steering are getting sketchy also got to replace bearings in the tranny. This should be a couple month project. I might have to pick your brain when i start the build stage.

Happypants
07-01-2010, 01:59 AM
Done yet?

'Balmer
07-01-2010, 11:35 AM
I've been holding off 'cause I'm short a room mate right now so funds are tight but I only need a couple hundred to get my front links in so expect to see some more progress by August. I'll have to hit the newb run again even if it's still parked though.

Happypants
07-01-2010, 12:30 PM
Cool mang!

'Balmer
08-13-2010, 02:00 PM
On my way to Jeep Thrills to pick up my coils to finish the rear suspension off as well as frame brackets/joints for my front links. Finally back on track!!!

Maelthra
08-13-2010, 09:32 PM
if you need a hand you know where to find me.

'Balmer
08-14-2010, 12:00 AM
if you need a hand you know where to find me.


Thanks buddy! It would be cool to hook up for some beers and a bit of work...

So I grabbed my new junk and now it's time to weld...

Progress pics by Monday.


Here's my new Wild Horse Rock Crawler 5.5" lift Early Bronco springs compared to my old JGC springs that gave me 2" of lift...
130847

130848


and the rest of the stuff I grabbed today - Ballistic Joints and high clearance control arm brackets from Poly Performance (yet to be welded)
130849

130850


Early Bronco coils come with pigtails...
130851

130852


but I don't need them.
130853

130854

Now on with the work[36]

Yendor
08-14-2010, 07:22 AM
How much lift will those springs give you?

'Balmer
08-14-2010, 09:32 AM
It's hard to say but they compare with 9" lift XJ coils. Stock XJ's sit a bit lower than pathfinder's so I'm guessing 7-8".
I'll have enough lift to clear 38's if I want, but I'm only going 36's I think.

Apathy
08-15-2010, 08:46 AM
They will give you appoximatly 5-7" of lift depending on weight, and perch placement.

i originally bought the same coiil but in 3.5" version for the front. but when i put them in, it settled much more than anticipated. so i got the 5.5" ones for the front, and it was perfect. I then made special perches for the rear and made them work.

i had about 7" of suspension lift before addding the cage and spring sag over the years.

if you run 38s' you gotta cut the forward firewall edge at the front of your rock slider. Ask me how i know...lol 36's will not require cutting this area.

Apathy
08-15-2010, 08:47 AM
oh, bump stops up front.

as you knoticed your front end is scary close to the oil pan.

take the nissan rear bump stops and put them up front.. works great.

'Balmer
08-15-2010, 10:55 AM
Thanks for the tip on the bump stops! I welded my brackets up last night and I'll be welding them to the frame tonight so I'll post some pics soon.

Happypants
08-15-2010, 11:01 PM
Sooooo......






























Done yet?

4skin
08-15-2010, 11:19 PM
how about now lol

'Balmer
08-16-2010, 02:35 PM
So I got my mounts all welded up. I finally got some gas for my welder so it's mainly nice clean mig welds from here on. I'll still go with flux core for anything over 1/4" though...
So nice to be started on the front of the frame now!



130922



130923



130924

'Balmer
08-23-2010, 11:40 PM
I plated my frame with 1/4" bar stock tonight in order to have a solid mouinting point for my adjustable coil buckets. I threw in a few plug welds for good measure.

131403

131404



Then I added the mounts for the coil buckets...
131405

131406


Coil buckets bolted on (with temporary, crappy hardware)...
131407

131408


Axle hung by straps and coil mocked in place. Looks like the axle should work for me as is unless I have major issues with my pinion angle - that would mean a cut n' turn and redoing my lower link mouints as well as my coil perches... fingers crossed that things keep up as they are!

And on to the driver's side... [36]
131409

131410

131411

4skin
08-23-2010, 11:57 PM
looks good man are you going to add a gusset to back of coil mount and a flat bar around front sideto suport plate from bending??

'Balmer
08-24-2010, 12:01 AM
I wasn't really planning on it. I'm following a build that has been copied a few times and I've never heard of anyone doing more than what I've done in terms of gusseting/bracing. Do you think it needs more?

4skin
08-24-2010, 12:59 AM
was just thinking on the back to keep it from working back and forth i tend to over build stuff
saw what you did to ifs looked like mine when i cut it out to lol
think we might wheel the same
i would gusset back at least think triangulation
if it can rock it will break and when i gusset a frame i cut gusset like<> or><
so weld isnt straight across frame fab looks great though man[cheers]
i realy want to link next one i build

'Balmer
08-24-2010, 11:28 AM
was just thinking on the back to keep it from working back and forth i tend to over build stuff
saw what you did to ifs looked like mine when i cut it out to lol
think we might wheel the same
i would gusset back at least think triangulation
if it can rock it will break and when i gusset a frame i cut gusset like<> or><
so weld isnt straight across frame fab looks great though man[cheers]
i realy want to link next one i build


Ya, maybe I'll throw a little gussetting in there...

Links are cool, wether or not it truly makes for a more capable rig or not depends on design and is really a matter of opinion I think, but the coolness factor is definately there :D

Here's a couple of pics with the wheel sitting "in place" - just for fun.


131465

131466

Happypants
08-24-2010, 12:02 PM
so can we go wheeling yet?

C-Dog
08-24-2010, 02:07 PM
looking good man keep up te good work and before you know it you wil be on the trail's beating her up :D

atoyot
08-24-2010, 03:16 PM
nice......

theborges
08-24-2010, 08:19 PM
looking good darren, nice welding with gas huh

'Balmer
11-09-2010, 03:19 PM
Welded up the frame side trac bar mount the other day along with the remaining coil bucket. I'm ordering the rest of my Balistic joints in the next week and grabbing the steel for my links, so there'll be a decent amount of progress asap!

Had to modify the trac bar bracket to be welded to the ouside of the frame rather than the inside and to match the curve of the frame.
134971

134972

Checking fit up.
134973


1/4" plate and bracket welded on.
134974

134975

134976

No pics of the coil bucket, but it looks just like the other side that I already posted... at least my axle is hanging in place now and most of the welding is done. Just have to spend more damn money!

4skin
11-09-2010, 05:15 PM
damm money just spent a pile on mine
and nothing shows lol

Apathy
11-09-2010, 08:39 PM
looking good man

skyjacker
11-09-2010, 09:48 PM
johnny joints and re flex joints dont pivot side to side though and there more solid than a rubber/poly bushing cause they dont wear out as fast, lots of guys run them on there buggies and i dont see any problems with there axles shifting side to side, besides isnt that what a track bar is for? to eliminate side to side axle movement? the johnny joints or re joints would last longer and be stronger cause they wont break, given that you keep them greased regularly

ya i got ford radius arms in my ranger with the stock bushing , and i defenatley wanna upgrade to some johnny's

awsome build [cheers]

'Balmer
11-09-2010, 09:57 PM
Thanks! I can't wait to get the links in place!

'Balmer
11-09-2010, 10:09 PM
I'm still unsure if my pinion angle will work or if I'll have to do a cut n' turn. I'm also still debating wether to weld the C's to the tubes with flux core or get someone to stick them with nickel rod if I wind up having to do the cut n' turn... I've seen it done both ways but the guys who have mig'ed/flux'ed their C's have had higher amperage machines than I have. The upside to having to do this is that I would then have to change my coil/lower link mounts on the axle which is, of course, more money but it would also move my axle forward by 1 3/8" with some mounts I've been eyeing up (my existing mounts are designed for an XJ and will work but I'd kinda like that inch and a bit...).

mus-Tard
11-09-2010, 11:52 PM
looking good man. bet your itchen to get out with it.

Apathy
11-10-2010, 12:46 AM
you should be ok on your poinion angle.
My buddy did the same as your doing (same front, but with leaves) his castor angle was fine, and he was able to use the waggy front, as is.

'Balmer
11-10-2010, 10:21 AM
That's cool. It would be nice to avoid the extra work in the end anyways...
Did your buddy wind up doing a double cardan on his D-shaft?

'Balmer
11-10-2010, 01:47 PM
looking good man. bet your itchen to get out with it.

I'm fair dyin' to get out with it!!!

I've always been a broke guy and, unfortunately, it's stopped me in the midst of a project before. I used to have a '73 Datsun 240Z; it was my first car and my pride and joy. After driving it for a couple of years i decided to do an extensive re-build. I worked my ass of and moved the body shell and all of the parts to probably no less than 10 different houses over the years. I got about 1/2 way through the resto when I finally gave up. The expense of housing my Z and trying to fix it up with the best possible parts and going through a couple of relationship break-ups was too much. Luckily for me z cars are super desireable and I made a decent buck selling it incomplete but it was still heartbreaking and demoralizing.

This project will be different[36]

It's taken me longer than I wanted by far. I hoped to be done a "budget SAS" by THIS spring, but after deciding to go with a 3-link over a radius arm design I knew it would take longer just 'cause of funding. I didn't, however, expect it to take this long! All things considered, I think it should be good to go for spring 2011. It may not be totally done but at least to the trail testing stage when I can finally get back out there with you guys. This one's getting finished!
:D

Apathy
11-10-2010, 06:57 PM
That's cool. It would be nice to avoid the extra work in the end anyways...
Did your buddy wind up doing a double cardan on his D-shaft?

I don't think he did.. and i can't check as he passed away last spring.

With mine and teh HP front end i did not have to use one. HOWEVER, when i went to the D300, i did have binding issues.

IF you put a doubleer in.. you WILL have to do a double cardan.

'Balmer
11-10-2010, 08:25 PM
Sorry to hear about your pal...
If all goes well I'm hoping to swap an early 90's 5.0L into it next year with a Dana 300 doubler but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it!

'Balmer
12-14-2010, 03:56 PM
I decided on a "finish" date. My rig will be rolling by April01, 2011 come Hell or high water.
I don't think I'll have my driveshaft built by then so it will be 2wd only for a little while, it will still be sitting on 33's (instead of the 36 -37's that I plan on) and it will be geared high for the first year (4.56 front/4.60 rear).
The drive shaft will be done shortly after it rolls out but the tires and gears are gonna stay till the following season when I feel a bit richer again. I might do the driveline swap mentioned in the above post, if I do I'll likely leave my gears as they are since I'll be getting atleast 4:1 out of my T-cases anyway.
I just ordered everything I need for the axle assembly other than gears (anyone got a set of D44 4.56's they wanna sell?) and I also ordered my last pair of coils and a bunch of tubing adapters and brackets and stuff so there'll be a giant leap forward by mid Jan.
And on goes the show...

Griswold
12-14-2010, 04:18 PM
Cool..Nice work.Looks great so far.

Zibi
12-14-2010, 10:08 PM
sounds great man, looking forward to seeing it! Curious though, won`t the front and rear having different gears make things go boom boom?

'Balmer
12-15-2010, 09:27 AM
My diffs are within the tolerance limit. 4.60's and 4.56's are close enough to work together without an issue.

Zibi
12-15-2010, 01:24 PM
cool [cheers]

'Balmer
02-09-2011, 09:16 PM
Sooo... still no further pics - Booo! BUT, most of my remaining, critical parts (a few brackets, tubing adaptors, etc and the second set of 5.5" lift Early Bronco coils) are very soon to arrive with my Johnny joints soon to follow. That will finish off the suspension then all I need are spindles and brakes for the D44, not to mention finishing touches (limiting straps, extended brake lines, custom bump stops, etc).
Coming soon to a fucking big pile of rocks near you ; )

Apathy
02-10-2011, 06:27 AM
Balmer,
Yes, my buddy did have to use a double cardan.

I have his rig in my garage.

epic3
02-10-2011, 03:25 PM
Welded up the frame side trac bar mount the other day along with the remaining coil bucket. I'm ordering the rest of my Balistic joints in the next week and grabbing the steel for my links, so there'll be a decent amount of progress asap!

Had to modify the trac bar bracket to be welded to the ouside of the frame rather than the inside and to match the curve of the frame.
134971

134972

Checking fit up.
134973


1/4" plate and bracket welded on.
134974

134975

134976

No pics of the coil bucket, but it looks just like the other side that I already posted... at least my axle is hanging in place now and most of the welding is done. Just have to spend more damn money!

Just how many dead bodies does it take to build a SAS pathy

Apathy
02-10-2011, 03:51 PM
Balmer,
Yes, my buddy did have to use a double cardan.

I have his rig in my garage.

BTW, I might have a drive shat that will fit your rig (front)
let me know the messurments... and i'll double check.

'Balmer
02-10-2011, 05:55 PM
BTW, I might have a drive shat that will fit your rig (front)
let me know the messurments... and i'll double check.

That would be very cool :cool: !

I'll get the numbers together tonight.

'Balmer
02-10-2011, 05:58 PM
Just how many dead bodies does it take to build a SAS pathy


Alot, I'm discovering.
I tend to be a bit obsessive with this type of thing. I start a "budjet build" and I wind up going far more towards the top end of things... Oh well, at least it should be pretty killer when it's done.
[cheers]

Apathy
02-10-2011, 06:41 PM
Alot, I'm discovering.
I tend to be a bit obsessive with this type of thing. I start a "budjet build" and I wind up going far more towards the top end of things... Oh well, at least it should be pretty killer when it's done.
[cheers]

well, i flog the hell out of my rig..
sometimes i'm suprised how it holds together.

Question... is your rig an auto or a manual?

'Balmer
02-10-2011, 06:52 PM
It's an auto.

Apathy
02-10-2011, 06:55 PM
It's an auto.


If i can make ANY suggestion, start gathering parts for a manual..[cheers]

'Balmer
02-10-2011, 07:02 PM
Is that strictly because of the overheating issue? I know lots of guys run coolers with success. I was actually going to go with a cooler and get a spare slush box for when this one packs it in...
I'm not totally against a std. but I do think there are lots of situations where an auto is advantageous. Plus, it gives me a bit more flexibility in terms of gearing for the time being.
I am very curious to hear your feedback on the auto though.

Griswold
02-10-2011, 07:09 PM
Nice job on the welding.....Looking good.

Apathy
02-10-2011, 07:12 PM
I have seen 100% more auto failures on all rigs than i have manual failures.

and the damn nissan slush boxes are not very good.
the manuals are bullet proof..

'Balmer
02-10-2011, 07:50 PM
Well, as you say, it may be best to gather parts in the near future. Pretty cheap n' simple swap over anyway. Hydraulic clutch?

Apathy
02-10-2011, 07:52 PM
you could do it in a weekend

Just keep your eyes open.

'Balmer
02-11-2011, 03:31 PM
BTW, I might have a drive shat that will fit your rig (front)
let me know the messurments... and i'll double check.


Looks like my drive shaft will need to be about 27.5" (measured from the center of the cap on the axle end and to the flange on the t-case end).

Thanks man!

Apathy
02-11-2011, 03:47 PM
Looks like my drive shaft will need to be about 27.5" (measured from the center of the cap on the axle end and to the flange on the t-case end).

Thanks man!

I won't be able to check it for a while.. but i'll get back toyou when i can!

is that sitting distance? as in a nuetral position?

'Balmer
02-11-2011, 04:04 PM
I won't be able to check it for a while.. but i'll get back toyou when i can!

is that sitting distance? as in a nuetral position?


The axle isn't mounted yet (waiting on parts) but this is where i would estimate it to be when sitting neutral. Also, Nissan Nut and others who have done the 3-link front are coming up with compressed lenghts of 26.5" - 28" (measured at the same spots, but also with a 1" thick adapter at the t-case end).

Stetson
02-14-2011, 11:11 AM
its an easy swap over to convert the auto to a stick. All the holes in the fire wall are there for the master cylinder and pedal, as well the shifter floor plate holes are all under the auto consul. If you do the swap over, make sure you unbolt the neutral safety switch box off the side of the automatic transmission and leave it in neutral, or your truck will never start :D. If you hide this little box somewhere accessible under the dash, when you get out of the truck, you can switch the lever to the drive position and it will be the best antitheft device, as the vehicle wont start unless in neutral and park.

Once upon a time, I had a 92 Pathfinder with a dana 44 front, and a 9" rear running a three link coil and air bag assist, all running on 38" boggers. I'll see if I can find any pics, but may be hard.

I had to cut and twist my housing on the front a few degrees, I will tell you that it was one of the biggest pains in the ass. The nickel weld or what ever they fill the pumpkin welds to adhere to the tubes are a damn hard metal. Had to heat, plasma cut and blow out, drill bits wouldn't cut it.

'Balmer
02-14-2011, 11:31 AM
Thanks for the info man. The neutral switch idea is a great one...

I would love to see some pics of your pathy if you can find 'em; sound's like a mean rig.

As far as doing a "cut n' turn" to set my caster, I'm desparately hoping to avoid that (like you found out - it's no fun) by running a double cardan (or cardigan as happypants calls it :D ) or even dual double cardans...
Like I said HOPING.

Good info. on the trans. swap[cheers]

fullsizebronco
02-16-2011, 08:36 PM
cant wait to see it done have watched this thread since the beginning !

'Balmer
02-16-2011, 11:38 PM
Thanks buddy, it's been a long, broke road but it will be worth it in the end. A bunch of parts are here and ready to be shipped so more pics in a couple of days...

'Balmer
03-10-2011, 04:09 PM
I'm going to be finishing off all of the frame-side link mounts this afternoon. I haven't done much lately but the rest of my link stuff should be here soon so it won't be long now. Got some spindles figured out too, hopefully they're in good enough shape to use...

Here's a few pics of the start of my frame-side top link mount:

I ordered my mount with a 22.5 degree offset only to discover that my frame was angled in about 20 degrees at the mount location anyway. Now I have to mod my bracket back to 0 degrees - stupid, stupid, stupid...
139764

139765

Needed a captive nut for the inside of the frame
139766

139767

Frame needed to be cut out a bit so I could get my mount as high as possible
139768

139769

139770

and first part of the mount welded in
139771

More pics soon...

mus-Tard
03-10-2011, 04:25 PM
looking good man

'Balmer
03-10-2011, 10:49 PM
Finished off all of the welding on the frame tonight!

Top link bracket had to be seriously modified:

Angles sheared off
139801

One side cleaned up
139802

Measures up PERFECTLY
139803

139804

Had to cut a bunch of material out of the back of the bracket to clearance it for the x-member
139805

139806

Mounted. Yes, I know, the welds are ugly, but it's tough getting up in there. There's good penetration on all of the welds though, most of them are multi-pass.
139807

139808

139809

'Balmer
03-10-2011, 10:53 PM
And the lower link frame-side brackets:

139810

139811

139812

139813

139814

'Balmer
03-10-2011, 10:55 PM
So the only fabbing left is track bar axle mounts - front and rear, a truss/top link for the front axle and shock towers. Then it's on to axle assembly and little stuff like brake lines, drive shaft, etc.

Soooo close...

atoyot
03-10-2011, 11:00 PM
comin along nicely!

Apathy
03-11-2011, 06:19 AM
git-r-done..

Renegord
03-14-2011, 09:22 AM
lookin' good . it's nice to see it so close to done.[cheers]

'Balmer
03-14-2011, 11:42 AM
Ordered up my rear shocks today, picking them up on Thursday and picking up my spindles and stuff today - thanks Gord! All that's left for the rear now is to clearance a crossmeber for the added driveshaft droop and to finish modding the trac bar. I wanted to adjust (raise) the trac bar mount only at the axle to get it level so that my roll center numbers would be as good as possible. Unfortunately, it looks like I might have to drop it a bit at the frame end too if I want to get the bar totally level, due to limited room at the axle end...

'Balmer
03-15-2011, 10:56 AM
Modified my truss last night to add some strength but more importantly, to give me a suitable spot to weld my top linkmount:


140050

140051

140052

140053

140054

140055

140056

140057

140058

140059

140060

Looks like I'm going to have to do a cut n' turn to my C's. My pinion is sitting at 7 degrees but to point at my transfer case at resting ride hieght I need it to be 22 degrees. I'm pretty sure this is the only way I'll be able to run it. That way I'll have virtually no angle at my diff u-joint and all of it will be absorbed by the double cardan that I'll be putting on the transfer case end.
Another bitch of a thing, but life goes on...

140061

140062

140063

140064

Griswold
03-15-2011, 11:14 AM
Nice work on the armor...Looking good

harvester_sorrow
03-16-2011, 08:34 PM
Good work. When you turn the pinion make sure it has a small angle so that everything still moves and gets lubed.

'Balmer
03-17-2011, 05:49 PM
I'll be modding the diff cover for added oil capacity to combat this issue :cool:

'Balmer
03-17-2011, 05:51 PM
Hey Jeremy... I know your running a double tri 4-link in the rear but I'm wondering what shocks you use (compressed and extended length)? I just got the shocks that the nissan 3-link front / long arm rear guys are using and I get a whole 1 3/4" droop at the shock so that's not gonna work...

Apathy
03-17-2011, 05:58 PM
Hey Jeremy... I know your running a double tri 4-link in the rear but I'm wondering what shocks you use (compressed and extended length)? I just got the shocks that the nissan 3-link front / long arm rear guys are using and I get a whole 1 3/4" droop at the shock so that's not gonna work...


i have the longest shocks you can buy.
i designed the mounts around them.
they are too long in the front, but i make it work.

search for rancho or pro comp catalogs, you can find them that give you all the dimentions you will need. Pick the ones that will suit you and order them up.

alot of people condem the pro comp shocks, but i ran them for a long time and they were pretty good. and you can get an entire set for aroudn 160 bucks normally.

'Balmer
03-17-2011, 06:29 PM
I hear ya. The shocks I've got are 29" extended. That's about as long as they come until you get into piggy backs... Guess it's shock mount relocation time! I don't know how the hell these other gus are running 'em on stock mounts though???

B
03-17-2011, 07:46 PM
I hear ya. The shocks I've got are 29" extended. That's about as long as they come until you get into piggy backs... Guess it's shock mount relocation time! I don't know how the hell these other gus are running 'em on stock mounts though???

they moving them to on top of the axle ?

'Balmer
03-17-2011, 08:23 PM
Nope... I just got word that it's an issue for them... I think they're just destroying their shocks by topping them out. I'm going to move 'em to the top of the axle. It's an easy looking fix and it nets me 6" of extra droop at the shock which should be a whole lot more at the wheel.

Apathy
03-17-2011, 08:50 PM
thats not even close to max lenght.

I have 16" of travel.

i belive they are somethign like 36" extended.

'Balmer
03-17-2011, 08:58 PM
I'd love to know the brand and part # for those. My buddy at lordco checked a few brands and the longest he found was 30" extended...

'Balmer
03-17-2011, 08:58 PM
12" travel

tchevy
03-17-2011, 09:02 PM
my 40 dollar ranchos have 14. :party0010:

tchevy
03-17-2011, 09:06 PM
http://www.gorancho.com/assets/catalog/Rancho_Suspension_2010_Master_Catalog_Supplement.p df


RS5036

thats got 15 inches.

good luck[cheers]

harvester_sorrow
03-17-2011, 09:24 PM
I'll be modding the diff cover for added oil capacity to combat this issue :cool:

Good idea, but I was talking about the universal joint. It needs a slight angle to keep the needle bearings moving.

Apathy
03-18-2011, 08:46 AM
http://www.procompusa.com/prodDetail.aspx?partNo=EXP936010&catID=1&subCat=90&ptID=3306&plID=1820

936010

just check that its not a post on one end.

15.52" travel.

'Balmer
03-18-2011, 10:17 AM
Good work. When you turn the pinion make sure it has a small angle so that everything still moves and gets lubed.

Ah yes, good point. The natural movement of the axle while wheelin' will provide plenty of oportunity for the U-joint to flex and stay lubed - no?

'Balmer
03-18-2011, 10:37 AM
http://www.procompusa.com/prodDetail.aspx?partNo=EXP936010&catID=1&subCat=90&ptID=3306&plID=1820

936010

just check that its not a post on one end.

15.52" travel.


Thanks man, Lordco doesn't have access to these suckers unfortunately but they do have the Ranchos with 15" travel for a really decent price so that's the way I'll go. I wonder if I'll still need to move the mounts a bit to get full droop?

'Balmer
03-18-2011, 10:38 AM
http://www.gorancho.com/assets/catalog/Rancho_Suspension_2010_Master_Catalog_Supplement.p df


RS5036

thats got 15 inches.

good luck[cheers]



Wicked dude! Thanks for the info. !!! Getting them for a song ; )

harvester_sorrow
03-18-2011, 08:33 PM
Ah yes, good point. The natural movement of the axle while wheelin' will provide plenty of oportunity for the U-joint to flex and stay lubed - no?

Not sure, just what I've been told.

'Balmer
03-19-2011, 09:07 PM
Got my shocks. I'm pretty sure they'll provide enough travel :party0010:

These should work great for both front and rear. I installed a rear shock and there's a little bit of interferance between the lift coil and the shock body. The shocks come with some decent looking mounting studs so I'm thinking I'll build a small adapter to set the bottom of the shock about 1" further away from the coil. It will use a pice of 2"X2" tube and the new stud welded to the old mount (old stud cut off). Pics tomorrow to explain my rambling...

Compared to stock (both fully extended) 23" stock and 36" lifted.

140170


Set up against the truck, just for fun. The top shock mount will be about 2" higher than the top eye sits in the pics, I just didn't feel like messing around. Ahh the droop :D

140171

140172

tchevy
03-20-2011, 12:40 AM
glad it worked out for ya man.

'Balmer
03-20-2011, 10:48 PM
And another productive afternoon. [36]


Got my shock mounts finished up and got my trac bar mount almost done but I ran out of 2"X2" tube that I need for gusseting. Tomorrow the rear will be officially finished and pics of the track bar set up will posted. For now, the shock mounts:



Stock mounts all ground down and marked along the weld lines (the end of the mount along with the original mounting stud were cut off - no pics of that).



140184





One of my new mounts that I fabbed from 1/8" wall, 2"X2" tube.
140185




A pice of 1/8" flat bar drilled for the new hardware and obviously installed.
140186




Ready to cap my new mount.
140187




Welded up.
140188




Slipped over the old mount.
140189




Zero degrees.
140190




All burned in.
140191



140192



140196








I thought I had a few pics of the original trac bar mount (maybe they're in my previous posts). Any way, this is after cutting off the original mounting stud and the end of the mount (similar to the shock mounts) and capping the open end.



140193



140194



The new mount will raise the stud by 4 1/2" and set it towards the rear of the truck by 2 3/4"" over stock. This will actually bring it to within an inch of paralell in the rear which is way better than stock. Pics to explain tomorow.



140195






A lame pic not really showing the interferance that existed between the coil and the shock... but you get the idea. It wasn't bad but bad enough that it bugged me.


140197


And finshed. There's just over an inch of clearance now and the stud is perfectly horizontal rather than off by about 10 degrees.



140198







My new trac bar mount.



140199



Ground down for welding on the mounting stud.



140200



And welded up.
140201



140202



More tomorrow...[36]

Apathy
03-21-2011, 07:04 AM
getting there!

theborges
03-21-2011, 08:56 PM
looking good daren, cant wait for the weather to get better so i can continue working on my rig

'Balmer
05-27-2011, 09:03 PM
Just a few pics of a damn convoluted track bar bracket that I had to fab up to bring my axle side mount up by about 5 1/2" and back about 3". Boring I know but it took hours to create. So that's officially it for the rear and the parts gathering for the front should be complete next month then I'll take a week off to finish this thing to the point that it will at least roll!



142653


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142655


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142659

Hellboy
05-27-2011, 10:18 PM
This is gonna be so sick when it's done!

mus-Tard
05-28-2011, 02:31 AM
cant wait to see it done man

harvester_sorrow
05-28-2011, 09:56 PM
cant wait to see it done man

Whats another year?:D

'Balmer
06-05-2012, 02:09 AM
It's late so I'll avoid the sordid details for now. Suffice it to say that Project Pathfinder is not dead - far from it...

it's about to roll!

Here's a few pics 'till I've got the energy for a write up.

I've been too shameful over my non-progress to hold my head up around here for eons - finally redemption is upon me [36]

'Balmer
06-05-2012, 02:15 AM
Okay, so I can't seem to post pics anymore. I'll check into it tomorrow.

'Balmer
06-05-2012, 10:42 AM
Frustrating... oh well, I'll post the sas to my FB page today and then any one who's interested can check it out there.
In the meantime, check out some of the other stuff I've been up to:

https://www.facebook.com/BalmerFabrication

kamloopsyota
06-05-2012, 10:47 AM
i didnt see any pictures of it on FB, but that old model A is pretty badass.

'Balmer
06-05-2012, 12:03 PM
Some pics up now...

atoyot
06-05-2012, 04:23 PM
nice to see ur still kickin around.....

.

kamloopsyota
06-06-2012, 10:57 AM
sweet, gettin there!

Apathy
06-06-2012, 12:11 PM
Looks good Balmer.
I'm worried that your pan hard bar is too high though, i think your going to have oil pan clearance issues.

youngun
06-06-2012, 12:31 PM
142653


142654


142655


142656


142657


142658


142659


Am I the only one that thinks that panhard bracket should be re built :dontknow:

yoda604
06-06-2012, 12:34 PM
Am I the only one that thinks that panhard bracket should be re built :dontknow:

What are you talking about, that frankenstein of a piece of steel should be just fine:D.

'Balmer
07-16-2012, 11:51 AM
My track bar brackets are the among the only ones I didn't fab myself, they are from Ballistic fab. What's the matter with 'em?

Anyway, I've had it on the trail this weekend. It loves rocks and hates pavement. I've got a 50-60 km death wobble to sort out so it's off to the alignment shop later this week. The front axle is adjustable on X,Y,and Z planes so it's not surprizing that there's some initial issues.

Jeremy, My track bar clears fine. I have no clearance issues with my SAS at all. That said, I am swapping to a dead straight track bar and drag link in hopes of alieviating some of the death wobble. Even with a straight track bar I think it will clear the oil pan.

Gotta love bein locked on 37's!

'Balmer
07-16-2012, 12:01 PM
Oooooh you mean my rear track bar bracket... It's solid, just looks ugly. My truck isn't built to be a pretty girl rig.

harvester_sorrow
07-16-2012, 10:40 PM
so, done yet?